Need clarification on load-order (Skyrim SE) for patches in LOOT

[thestigma]

Hey all,

 

I'm an intermediate-level modder and I recently got up to speed on how to manually add rules to plugin sorting in LOOT - especially the "load after" rule. This seems really useful to help LOOT out in getting the order right whenever it doesn't have pre-programmed rules for a given mod/patch.

 

However, it made me unsure of the best-practice rules of how to load compatability paches.

 

Before I tended to just let LOOT sort as it wanted unless the author specifically said something about the loadorder of the patch - but now I notice that lots of these patches do not have a preprogrammed "load after" rule, and in like 70% of cases the mod authors do not clearly specify if a spesific load-order is required. If I don't add rules myself then it seems like a lot of these compatibility patches end up not being run after both mods they relate to. Isn't this potentially a problem?

 

So what is the best practice I should adopt for a stable setup?

 

- Not add rules unless specifically mentioned like I have done? (this seems like praying for the best since even good authors don't always write perfect instructions)

 

- Always ensure that compatibility patches between modX and modY run after BOTH of them?

 

- Something entirely different?

 

In short - is there a golden general rule I should apply to compatibility patches if I want to be completely sure they take effect properly? I realize that these rules might be superfluous in a lot of cases due to implicit dependencies, but they shouldn't hurt at least right?

 

I hope an experienced modder can help me out on this. I'd really appreciate it!

 

Bonus question for the extra-helpful people: What does the "priority" and "global priority" numbers in LOOT do and under what circumstances should I be using these?

[sopmac45]

You are asking questions related to Vortex. I could answer to all of your questions because I have made them already in the Vortex Feedback forum but it will be too long for me.

 

I do recommend that you go to that forum and start reading and take notes. Check Simple Manual Order thread and you will find most ( probably all ) of your questions answered. BTW, you do not need LOOT and you do not need to use dependencies or rules for every single mod/plugin. Check and you will be surprise !!

[Algabar]

For files, that are clearly patches or additions to other plugins, you usually don't need to worry about LOOT or tell it anything specific. It's a simple thing about dependencies: If a file is dependent on a master (which a patch is), LOOT will always put it after this master. So just hit that "sort" button and forget...

 

Another thing are files, that shoudl be - in YOUR opinion - loaded after something else: Simple example: In my game I have different NPC replacers and I generally want the Bijin mods to overwrite other replacers, because I like the Bijin faces. In this case i will have to tell LOOT, that i want Bijin loaded after e.g. "inhabitants of Skyrim". So I set up a "load after" rule. In this case, you also can't blame LOOT - how is the poor program supposed to know which faces I like best?

 

From my understanding, the "global priority" is used to determine a plugin's overall place in a load order. The higher this number, the lower in the load order the plugin is sorted. "Realistic Water Two" for example, which should be quite low in any load order, has a global priority of 90 or something. Now if you have another plugin, that should be also at the bottom of your load order, but before "Realistic Water Two", you could set its "global priority" to 89 - or whatever gives you teh desired result. As for "priority": I never used it - neither have I seen it in some plugin's LOOT rules. Not sure, what exactly it does...

 

@Sopmac: You're right in that Vortex in fact uses the sorting engine and the sorting principles of "LOOT", just in a different design. So all we're talking about also applies to plugin sorting in Vortex. Personally, despite having Vortex, I still use LOOT. Simply because I got a working system of specific rules for LOOT and I'm too lazy to establish all those rules again in Vortex...

 

@thestigma: There might be situations, when you want an exact load order like: A before B before patch for A+B. LOOT will always put "patch for A+B" after A AND B. You don't need to worry about that part. But maybe it will sort B after A - which is not what you want. In this case I'd suggest using a "load after" rule, that forces "B after A". Generally, read the mod descriptions and installation instructions, they should tell you things like these.

[sopmac45]

@Sopmac: You're right in that Vortex in fact uses the sorting engine and the sorting principles of "LOOT", just in a different design. So all we're talking about also applies to plugin sorting in Vortex. Personally, despite having Vortex, I still use LOOT. Simply because I got a working system of specific rules for LOOT and I'm too lazy to establish all those rules again in Vortex...

 

....>>> yes, you can also use LOOT but not both at the same time, I mean, you can but you should not. It is a matter of preference and other things behind the curtain. I do prefer Vortex sorting. I have tried both. In relation to rules, they only need to be set in the MOD tab when downloading / installing mods and I do not have more than 5 rules in a 65 mods list. Dependencies are to be set in the PLUGIN tabs and here, I just let Vortex sort the list and only use the dependency function, for some mods recommended by the author to be in certain orders, like for example : immersive wenches must load before any other wenches mod .... this is just a sample because anyway, Vortex is sorting this out correctly.

 

If a mod is recommended by the author to be at the bottom of the load order, then initially, I just let the mod to be placed automatically by Vortex anywhere in the list and try the mod in-game. If it does not work, then I use the Global Priority to place that mod where the author said and the dependency function is needed. Other than that, I do not use dependencies at all. So basically, there is not much to do in Vortex, just my 2 cents.