Distances in Skyrim

[RedRavyn]

@ eodx9000: I think using zones to separate parts of the external worldspace from each other would likely create some jarring visual anomalies in the game. Basically, each zone would be bounded by walls and you'd have to to sit through a loading screen to get to the other side. In an "open world" environment like we have in ES games this would be totally immersion-breaking.

 

Halflife-2 seems to partially solve this issue by hiding most of the scenery on the other side of the zone (like sending you through a tunnel), and just putting "fake" scenery that corresponds roughly to only what you can see from your angle. You still get the loading notification, but the transition is pretty transparent other than that. Again, though, in wide-open spaces like we have in Skyrim I don't think this could be done.

 

@ NoobusExtremus: Map size isn't the issue. Environmental complexity is the issue. The game is limited in what you can put in it by the number of polygons you have to render, the number and size of textures you have to load, and the number of concurrent scripts you have to run, among many other things. Reducing the scale of objects in the world doesn't solve this problem because you'd just be using that extra "space" you created to pack in more objects. Otherwise, there's no point in doing it. "Modern" consoles simply can't handle the kind of load that modern PCs can handle, so game developers like Bethesda, who create their games for consoles and not for PCs, are severely limited in how much "content" can be present in-game at any given time.

[LuckyLucianoO]

Cheers for the answers mates. Skyrim is tiny. I would like a bigger Skyrim because i dont use fast travel. But after i've red the RedRavyn's posts i see it's impossible for now. I am sad:( Edited May 9, 2012 by LuckyLucianoO

[MightyZ0G]

@RedRavyn: they could have the transitions in mountain passes (considering that they have surrounded the regions in the existing games with mountains this would be in character for the game)

 

make the pass several cells long and you could probably cross from Skyrim to Cyrodiil with no HL style loading screen,

 

they could even have a border post at each end of the pass that you had to go through the interior of to get in and out of the pass.

there could also be a few secret tunnels for those with bounties on their heads to use so they can avoid the guards when crossing the borders

[RedRavyn]

@ mighty zog: I think you would have to completely remake the geography of Skyrim to do that, though. I don't think there's any major region in Skyrim that you can't get to without going through a pass, so the whole country would still have to be an open gameworld. For just about every pass there's an end-around path that will get you to its destination on low ground without any blocked view of either where you've been or where you're going.

 

Getting from Skyrim to Cyrodiil or back: That's a possibility, I suppose. I'm not sure how the geography of the two regions match, but they are separated by an almost impassable mountain range for most of the length of their common border. At least that's the impression I get from playing Oblivion with map borders disabled. It was pretty difficult, without cheats, to get over the northern mountain range and into the "unfinished" region that is part of Skyrim. It could be done with a good amount of experimenting, but I was never successful at this without a high Athletics stat. Separating the various Provinces and independent countries with mountains that required passes to get form one to another would help with the computer load difficulties, as you point out.

[MightyZ0G]

it might even be possible to reduce the loading by having a vast desert to cross.

lots of dunes and maybe the occasional wadi or oasis but basically lots of relatively empty cells until you get to the other side and then it can start on loading the detailed terrain when it needs to. if you really needed to cut down on the desert, have a permanent sandstorm across the middle of it to cut down visibility to the surrounding areas when you are in the middle

 

even a loading screen similar to the ones used between Skyrim and towns/buildings/dungeons would be ok.

the engine can deal with loading up a relatively large area during these transitions and it is a "feature" of the game with a chance to have a drink/snack/smoke before getting back to exploring.

 

another method of linking regions could be by ship in a similar way to carriage travel around Skyrim or even having the journey along a preset route but with random encounters (anything from pirates trying to board to sea monsters or, for a completely different experience, dolphins swimming alongside). with a system like that you could even find a boat drifting with clues pointing to various islands with side quests which would require you to charter a boat to reach them.

 

the methods for travelling between regions are numerous and it is possible that different techniques would be used for different regional borders.

if one border was too difficult because there was no natural boundary that could be used to disguise the loading then Beth could always have the Thalmar throw up a magical boundary that you need to find a specific artefact or spell to break through and you have your nice neat place for a loading screen to go and the border has been crossed (this would also mean that parts of the map would not be available early in the game.

[Tidus44]

And here I thought it was 3.7 Mol or just over 30,000 kvadratfot in area and just under 1 vkia by road Riften to Markharth.

[Whisper292]

Reposted this from Tumblr:

 

The first edition PGE mentions that there are 250 miles between Red Mountain and Mournhold. This measure also coincides with the scale used in Daggerfall, which Bethesda claims is 1:1.

 

Tamriel is about 1400 miles across (from Daggerfall to Necrom), and about 900 miles north-south (from Winterhold to Senchal). The road between Tel Branora and Dagon Fell is 297 miles. The path from Gnisis to Sadrith Mora cutting through Vvardenfell is about 200 miles. These would be on foot journeys of 12 and 8 days, respectively.

 

Using Inkscape, a map was scaled to 1 pixel=1 sq. mi. Then an outline was around each province, and the areas inside each path measured. This produced square mileages that should be almost exact. Without further ado, here is each province compared to the country with the closest area:

 

Tamriel: 918,000 mi2 (Algeria, or 1.4 Alaskas)

Skyrim: 121,000 mi2 (Poland)

Cyrodiil: 200,000 mi2 (Yemen)

[Rumare Is.]: 3200 mi2 (Puerto Rico)

Morrowind: 158,000 mi2 (Sweden)

[Vvardenfell]: 31,000 mi2 (Czech Republic)

High Rock: 58,000 mi2 (Nepal)

Hammerfell: 115,000 mi2 (The Philippines)

Valenwood: 84,000 mi2 (Guyana)

Elsweyr: 89,000 mi2 (Romania)

Black Marsh: 118,000 (Italy)

Summerset Isles: 81,000 (Belarus)

 

//Everything figured out by Lordofthestrings on reddit.

[InAComaDial999]

Note that there is more to it than simply distance. Skyrim exaggerates the apparent distance between objects to make the world look bigger. In other words, if you move X distance from an object, it appears to be 2X distance away. This is especially obvious in some locations; for example, try traveling between Riverwood and the bandit tower across the river from it and you'll see what I mean. Or just walk up to Azura's statue, then walk away a few dozen steps and look again, and you'll see it looks much further away than it should based on how far you've walked.

 

Skyrim also uses other perspective tricks, like buildings that are bigger on the inside than on the outside, to make the world appear larger than it is.

 

All of which is to say, figuring out the "real life" distances in Skyrim based on number of strides to get from one place to the other, etc, does not give you the complete picture.

[AnkhAscendant]

I have to say, mighty zog, as much as I appreciate the idea of a real-sized Skyrim or Tamriel, I have to say most all of your suggestions would make me hate the game ^^; They seem like what I'd find in a RPG on my DS, not something I would be happy paying money for in an Elder Scrolls game. I get really PO'ed at 'open world' games where it's really "totally open world (as long as you follow the paths)!" or "open world, really! (as long as you don't mind where you can go being restricted by level or quest)". I'm already mad at the couple places in the game you can't go when you're not on a quest. Loading screens fine and dandy... predetermined paths, gimmicks, and contrived restrictions bad.

[SirCyRo]

Sorry for digging up an old thread....

 

My coworker recently showed me Elder Scrolls online, and it got me thinking, what if you could travel the entire Tamriel in game. Since the online game supposedly is PC only, there are no console limitations. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

I then got on this quest to figure out how big Tamriel is really. I see the above post about sizes, and have seen some that say Tamriel is about the size of Australia. Earlier in this post, it says about 1.4 times the size of Alaska.

 

If you look at the maps of Tamriel that are out, almost all of them are pretty consistant with the size of Skyrim as to how it relates to the rest of Tamriel. Skyrim is about the same size at Hammerfall, and roughly 2/3 the size of Cyrodill.

 

OK, I HAVE done this. I have walked from Riften, past Falkreath, to Markarth. I was bored. Even with fighting off bears, wolves, occasional random bandits and other annoyances, I still walked that distance in about 2 hours REAL TIME. not game time. That works out to a little over 3 miles. A lot of estimates I see online are that Skyrim is 3.5 miles wide.

 

OK, now given the width and height of Skyrim, using a simple ruler, you can estimate the size of Tamriel. Now, I'm basing this info from maps that Bethesda has put out. To me, the entire Tamriel is maybe a little bit bigger than the city I live in, in real life. A bit bigger than the Baltimore metro area, but definately smaller than, say, Kansas City. How can an entire continent, which has both tropical and winter like areas, and desert areas in some sestions, be smaller than some USA cities? Where does Bethesda get this 12 million square miles area? By comparrison, the USA is 3.7 million square miles, and it takes months REAL time to walk from one side to the other. Tamriel is 4X bigger than the USA?

 

I do not know where you get the Australia or Alaska comparison. Tamriel is teeny tiny.