Random Outdoor CTD (Any help much appreciated)

[Milk101]

I seem to suffer from a random outdoor CTD every few hours, sometimes quite close in frequency.

I have these outdoor CTDs at random times, doing different things, in different areas. Does not seem to be in any rhyme or rythem to it (sometimes during combat, sometimes while traveling on horseback, sometimes while standing in a town, crossing a bridge, foraging, skinning a wolf, etc.)

The main problem with these CTDs is the randomness, I played for 6 hours straight the last week with lots of outdoor travel and had no CTDs (was so happy because I though I found the problem and fixed it). Then I was playing for two hours last night and had two random outdoor CTDs in a row, one when riding a horse and looting some alchemy ingredients from my horse (convenient horses), and the other when just standing in Riverwood. So it's obviously very hard to pin down.

I've been working on this modded game for over a month now, so if the solution you are thinking of is some well known kind of fix then I have probably done it (not that I don't appreciate the help, just want anyone helping to know I have spent a considerable amount of time testing and working on this modded game). I'll list a few common answers to questions below.

• I use MO.
• Have latest SKSE.
• Have cleaned the main game files (correctly, I'm sure).
• Have no dirty plugins (I don't clean other peoples Mods, just don't have any).
• Loot organized load order.
• Bash Patch (no merged, it was messing things up)
• Use the DLL plugin fix.
• Do not use an ENB or Shader
• The game is on a clean save with no mods added or removed or even a reordered load order during the playthrough.
• I can promise I have read the mod descriptions, recent forum posts, and install instructions of all installed mods checking for conflicts (does not mean I couldn't have missed something).
• 970GTXm with 16G of RAM and Intel I7 quadcore 2.6Hz

I have spent a ton of time working on this and it is quite disappointing to have such a random problem, so I'll thank you in advance if you give any sort of advice :smile:

0 0 Skyrim.esm
1 1 Update.esm
2 2 Dawnguard.esm
3 3 HearthFires.esm
4 4 Dragonborn.esm
5 5 Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
6 6 Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
7 7 ApachiiHair.esm
8 8 ApachiiHairFemales.esm
9 9 Cutting Room Floor.esp
10 a SMIM-SE-Merged-All.esp
11 b EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
12 c ELFX - Exteriors.esp
13 d iNeed.esp
14 e iNeed - Extended.esp
15 f CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp
16 10 Distinct Interiors.esp
17 11 Distinct Interiors - Inns.esp
18 12 Audio Overhaul Skyrim.esp
19 13 3DNPC.esp
20 14 Distinct Interiors - Shops.esp
21 15 Book Covers Skyrim.esp
22 16 Summermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim.esp
23 17 Skyrim Immersive Creatures Special Edition.esp
24 18 AAE Ultimate Edition.esp
25 19 SkyrimIsWindy.esp
26 1a Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
27 1b Verdant - A Skyrim Grass Plugin SSE Version.esp
28 1c Blues Skyrim.esp
29 1d Book of UUNP Iron And Steel.esp
30 1e Combat Evolved.esp
31 1f Distinct Interiors - Miscellaneous.esp
32 20 SAFO.esp
33 21 EconomyOverhaulandSpeechcraftImprovements.esp
34 22 Populated Skyrim Legendary.esp
35 23 OpulentThievesGuild.esp
36 24 Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp
37 25 Fort(ified) Dawnguard.esp
38 26 Scarcity SE - Less Loot Mod.esp
39 27 mrbs-uniqueloot-se.esp
40 28 skyBirds_SSE.esp
41 29 SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp
42 2a Mortal Enemies Patch - Realistic Animals Predators.esp
43 2b Legendary Skyrim Crossbows.esp
44 2c Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
45 2d Immersive Weapons.esp
46 2e Lore Weapon Expansion.esp
47 2f High Level Enemies.esp
48 30 CWIELnFXSEPatch.esp
49 31 TheScarlett.esp
50 32 Cloaks.esp
51 33 1nivWICCloaks.esp
52 34 AAE_HLE_Patch.esp
53 35 AAE_Cloaks_Patch.esp
54 36 AAE_Fixes_Patch.esp
55 37 Mortal Enemies.esp
56 38 Wildcat - Combat of Skyrim.esp
57 39 UltimateCombat.esp
58 3a KS Dragon Overhaul.esp
59 3b AAE_MortalEnemies_Patch.esp
60 3c Pacifist Mini-Mods Collection.esp
61 3d AAE_STRAP_Patch.esp
62 3e EconomyOverhaulandDawnofSkyrimPatch.esp
63 3f Inigo.esp
64 40 fallentreebridges.esp
65 41 HeljarchenFarm.esp
66 42 Immersive Patrols II.esp
67 43 WindstadMine.esp
68 44 Hunterborn.esp
69 45 Eli_Halla.esp
70 46 LIAT - NPCs.esp
71 47 WICO-Immersive Weapons Patch.esp
72 48 IW_AAE_Patch.esp
73 49 AAE_WICO_Patch.esp
74 4a AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
75 4b Andromeda - Unique Standing Stones of Skyrim.esp
76 4c Better Dynamic Snow.esp
77 4d notice board.esp
78 4e ExpandedCarriageService.esp
79 4f Equippable Tomes.esp
80 50 Apocalypse - Magic of Skyrim.esp
81 51 Apocalypse - Ordinator Compatibility Patch.esp
82 52 Apophysis_DPM_SE.esp
83 53 ArcheryV2.esp
84 54 Audio Overhaul Skyrim - Cutting Room Floor Patch.esp
85 55 Immersive Jewelry.esp
86 56 Immersive Sounds - Compendium.esp
87 57 dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
88 58 Audio Overhaul Skyrim - Enhanced Blood Patch.esp
89 59 Better Vampires.esp
90 5a Enhanced Magic VSFX.esp
91 5b Audio Overhaul Skyrim - Enhanced Magic VSFX Patch.esp
92 5c Audio Overhaul Skyrim - Immersive Sounds Patch.esp
93 5d Audio Overhaul Skyrim - Ordinator Patch.esp
94 5e Vivid WeathersSE.esp
95 5f Audio Overhaul Skyrim - Vivid Weathers Patch.esp
96 60 Audio Overhaul Skyrim - Vivid Weathers Define Patch.esp
97 61 Beards.esp
98 62 BetterQuestObjectives - BCS Patch.esp
99 63 BetterQuestObjectives-CRFPatch.esp
100 64 Book of UUNP - Textures.esp
101 65 Book of UUNP - WIC - Cloaks Skyrim - Patch.esp
102 66 Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp
103 67 Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp
104 68 Cloaks - USSEP Patch.esp
105 69 Celtic_Music_In_Skyrim_SE.esp
106 6a Dawnguard Delayed - Level 30.esp
107 6b dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp
108 6c dD-No Spinning Death Animation.esp
109 6d DeadlySpellImpacts.esp
110 6e DiverseDragonsCollectionSE.esp
111 6f Dr_Bandolier.esp
112 70 DYNAVISION Dynamic Depth of Field.esp
113 71 EconomyOverhaulandOrdinatorPatch.esp
114 72 EconomyOverhaulandScarcityPatch.esp
115 73 FNIS.esp
116 74 FNISSexyMove.esp
117 75 Footprints.esp
118 76 High Level Enemies - Dawnguard.esp
119 77 High Level Enemies - Dragonborn.esp
120 78 honedmetal.esp
121 79 Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
122 7a Hunterborn - iNeed Patch.esp
123 7b Hunterborn - Leather Tanning.esp
124 7c Hunterborn - Soups and Stews.esp
125 7d icepenguinworldmapclassic.esp
126 7e iHUD.esp
127 7f Immersive Movement.esp
128 80 Immersive Movement - Wildcat Patch.esp
129 81 imp_helm_legend.esp
130 82 Improved Eyes Skyrim.esp
131 83 Insanity's Sorrow.esp
132 84 ISC Enhanced Blood Patch.esp
133 85 JoP - Immersive Armors Patch.esp
134 86 JoP - The Book of UUNP Patch.esp
135 87 Joy of Perspective.esp
136 88 Lore Weapon Expansion - Daedric Crescent.esp
137 89 Lore Weapon Expansion - Goldbrand.esp
138 8a Lore Weapon Expansion - Relics of the Crusader.esp
139 8b LrsamwaysExpandedSkyrimWeaponry.esp
140 8c Master of Disguise - Special Edition.esp
141 8d SparklesSE.esp
142 8e Moonlight Tales Special Edition.esp
143 8f NB-FurHoods.esp
144 90 NB-Scars.esp
145 91 No Edge Glow - Magic and Transformations.esp
146 92 BetterQuestObjectives.esp
147 93 Realistic Haircolors.esp
148 94 Realistic-Voice.esp
149 95 Reduced Carry Weight -200.esp
150 96 Runandwalkpaces.esp
151 97 Sakora's Make Up Kit - Natural Colors.esp
152 98 ScrimshawExpanded.esp
153 99 SGEyebrows.esp
154 9a Shields of the Hold.esp
155 9b ShieldWard.esp
156 9c Simple AUA.esp
157 9d skyforgedWeapons.esp
158 9e SkyUI_SE.esp
159 9f SRG Enhanced Trees Activator.esp
160 a0 Thief skills rebalance for Ordinator.esp
161 a1 Tribunal Robes for SSE.esp
162 a2 UNP Vanilla Outfits.esp
163 a3 VioLens SE.esp
164 a4 Vivid Weathers - Extended Rain.esp
165 a5 Vivid Weathers SE - Extended Snow.esp
166 a6 WetandCold.esp
167 a7 WICO - Immersive People.esp
168 a8 WICO - USSEP Compatible Patch.esp
169 a9 WICO - Immersive Character.esp
170 aa WICO - Immersive Dawnguard.esp
171 ab Wildcat-Immersive Weapons Patch.esp
172 ac ICOW_WICO_Patch.esp
173 ad Scarcity SE - 2x Loot Rarity.esp
174 ae Scarcity SE - 2x Merchant Item Rarity.esp
175 af HarvestOverhaul_Redone.esp
176 b0 HOR_OrdinatorPatch.esp
177 b1 Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul.esp
178 b2 ELFX - Hardcore.esp
179 b3 CWICRFSEPatch.esp
180 b4 Rebalanced Leveled Lists - Lite.esp
181 b5 ForgottenMagic_Redone.esp
182 b6 Immersive Citizens - ELFXHardcore patch.esp
183 b7 Realistic AI Detection 2 SE - High Interior, Medium Exterior.esp
184 b8 MoreValuedPeltsHunterborn.esp
185 b9 Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
186 ba BetterQuestObjectives-AlternateStartPatch.esp
187 bb Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
188 bc RDO - AFT v1.66 Patch.esp
189 bd TheChoiceIsYours.esp
190 be Convenient Horses.esp
191 bf RDO - CRF + USSEP Patch.esp
192 c0 TCIY_BCS Patch.esp
193 c1 RealisticWaterTwo.esp
194 c2 Audio Overhaul Skyrim - RealisticWaterTwo Patch.esp
195 c3 RealisticWaterTwo - iNeed.esp
196 c4 RealisticWaterTwo - Watercolor.esp
197 c5 BijinAIO_SSE-3.1.1.esp
198 c6 Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Milk101

[Milk101]

Just had a 6+ hour session with one crash when being chased by about 10 mobs. Honestly don't know if it is better or not just to accept a few crashes here and there and play on

[BaronofHe11]

Things that can cause random crashes

Having to many mods. The number of mods is different for everybody.

Having mods in form 43.

Running out of ram

Running out of vram. This is a big one.

Having other apps open while playing. Especially apps that use vram like youtube.

Having a bad mix of physic, mesh, and skeletons. This is big also

SKEE, known to cause crashes

Bad load order

Not making use of a merged, bash, and/or smash patch

Save is corrupted or partially corrupted. This is big also.

Win 10 trying do something stupid like updating or deciding your plugins need to be purged

slow hard drive, try a SSD

Bad hard drive, uh oh

Not using SSE Engine Fixes

Installing mods from people that obviously barely know what they are doing.

Textures in the wrong format.

Meshes in the wrong format.

uninstalling mods that shouldn't be uninstalled. This is also a big one.

installing mods that shouldn't be installed mid game.

time scale might be to high if you changed it.

You didn't make a sacrifice to the gods of skyrim.

 

 

And a hundred other things I can't think of at the moment.

[Milk101]

Lol I'll sacrifice my neighbors cat and see how it goes.

 

Do merged patches really help with CTD? I used bash but when I made a merge a few of the mods stopped working.

 

Could be my textures mix too.

 

I'll try a few of those but the CTD is honestly not that often so I might just roll with it.

[Algabar]

Looking at your load order, I don't see anything obviously wrong. Just loads of script heavy or otherwise quite complex mods - and loads of patches for these mods. IMHO. using a load order like yours is somehow "flirting with disaster". One compatibility patch, that was made for an older version, one single entry somewhere, that conflicts with something else... Besides that, your game will have to handle a lot of scripts... So yeah, maybe simply "overmodded"..

 

What you can try: Replace the Bashed Patch with a "smashed patch" from Mator Smash:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/90987

It's somewhat better at creating conflict resolution patches than Wrye Bash. It's at least worth a try.

 

You can also give "NifScan" a go: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/75916 Maybe it finds something useful.

 

Don't worry - both utilities I mentioned will work for SE - they just don't have a dedicatzed SE mod page.

[Milk101]

Does the smash patch include multiple leveled list integration? If not, would it be possible to use the bash patch for leveled list and smash patch to merge plugins/conflict resolution? (Scrap this question found the answer on the mod page).

 

So I'll give the smash patch a go, I haven't used any merge patch function(only leveled list and tweaks from bash) yet and I would say my CTD rate is low (about once every 6 hours of game time). So if a merged patch improved on that then I'd be happy.

 

I'll try that other tool as well.

 

But yeah I'm only interested in a completely overhauled experience so I'm starting to think an occasional crash is to be expected when modding this heavily.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Milk101

[Milk101]

Hey Algabar while doing some research on the Smash patch I found a previously post from you recommending to use Smash and Wyre Bash together.

 

Seems to me the best method is to use the Smash for esp. merge and conflict resolution and then run wyre bash for leveled lists and merging redundant plugins. One question, should I disable leveled list mergingcreation when making the Smash patch? And then of course I would use it in the bash patch.

 

Any advice on how to move forward with this would be much appreciated. I'll also watch whatever is out there for Smash tutorials so just general tips is sufficient.

[Algabar]

Hey Algabar while doing some research on the Smash patch I found a previously post from you recommending to use Smash and Wyre Bash together.

 

Yep, but that was a mistake of mine. I somehow confused "Mator Smash" and "Merge Plugins", which are both created by the same author. To get this straight: "Merge plugins" ( https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/69905 ) is a program, that lets you combine several .esps into a single one, thus reducing your overall plugin number. If you use Wrye Bash, it would be sensible to MERGE plugins you want to merge first and then run Wrye Bash.

 

Mator Smash ( https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/90987 ) on the other hand does soemthing completely different: It doesn't merge PLUGINS. Instead, it merges RECORDS within plugins, thereby creating a conflict resolution patch. In fact, it adds a new patch file, but doesn't let you disable or permanently merge anything.

 

Basically, the "bashed patch" created by Wrye Bash and the "smashed patch" created by Mator Smash do very similar things. The difference is, that Mator Smash includes a lot more records than Wrye Bash does. That's why I came to prefer "Mator Smash" over "Wrye Bash".

 

"Mator Smash" and "Wrye Bash" are somewhat mutually exclusive, since they basically do the same thing. If you use one, I wouldn't recommend using the other. Leveled lists are created by Mator Smash, too. So you don't need Wrye Bash for that.

 

 

What I do (and what seems to work well):

 

1. Use "Merge Plugins" to combine plugins. I'm very careful with this: I only merge armor/clothing and weapon mods - and I test the merges thouroughly.

 

2. Let "Mator Smash" create a "smashed patch" for my whole loadorder. This is a bit of trial and error - as it is with Wrye Bash, too. You may find, that certain mods don't react well to the "smashed patch". In Skyrim SE, I didn't come across anything like that yet. In Fallout 4 however I had to realize, that I shouldn't include a few mods changing settlements into my "smashed patch". Now I simply uncheck those mods before creating a "smashed patch".

 

3. Load order changes: As with "Wrye Bash" too, every time you change your loadorder, you should also re-create your "smashed patch".

 

Hope this makes things a bit clearer. Sorry for the wrong information in the other thread...

[Milk101]

Not at all, thanks for the help.

 

I'm gonna make the switch from Wyre Badh to the Smah patch and see how it goes. I'll write back in a couple weeks for anyone who finds this thread later.

 

One last question, with the "merge plugins" does this have any benefit to stability? I'm at exactly 200 mods at the moment and at the most may add a few more content mods (undeath, Helgen reborn, etc.) so I'm not really gonna need the extra plugin space so idk if it's necessary.

[Algabar]

Not at all, thanks for the help.

 

I'm gonna make the switch from Wyre Badh to the Smah patch and see how it goes. I'll write back in a couple weeks for anyone who finds this thread later.

 

One last question, with the "merge plugins" does this have any benefit to stability? I'm at exactly 200 mods at the moment and at the most may add a few more content mods (undeath, Helgen reborn, etc.) so I'm not really gonna need the extra plugin space so idk if it's necessary.

 

You're welcome. ^^

Personally, I don't think merging plugins (with "Merge plugins") does much to increase stability. Although "Merge Plugins" is very safe to use (if you basically know what you're doing), there's still a slight risk, that the merging process may induce new issues.

TBH, I never had that happen in Skyrim or Skyrim SE, but I definitely saw it in Fallout 4 (with mods, that were according to all common rules easily mergeable)...

 

According to some people, merging plugins may lead to shorter loading times. I think, that's rather system dependant. I never really found that to be true - at least not on a really noticeable scale.

 

 

There's one thing, that might make merging plugins definitely beneficial: There is a proven engine bug, which leads to a performance loss, if you got many esp and esm plugins installed. It's explained here in the mod description:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/10547

 

On the other hand, there are two fixes for this engine "feature": "SSE fixes" (the link above) and "SSE engine fixes" ( https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/17230 ). From my experience, both seem to work very well, so I don't want to recommend one over the other. Maybe something to test - if you feel you need it. Both plugins won't affect save games, so there's no risk in simply trying them out.