Several questions about models/textures/armor addons

[BBourbon]

1- Can I make some of the mesh groups of an armor dissappear by simply assigning them a blank texture set contians no texture path, or will there be a "missing texture" issue instead? If I can't is there such a way to it without editing the actual model in blender or max or whatever?

 

2- I see that Chinese Stealth Helmet addon retextures the player character's neck with grey hexagon honeycomb texture. I went thru with all the files I could relatively find regarding to csh in geck but couldn't find anything that creates this effect. Csh model has no neck object and that is why I'm puzzled. How do I do it for a custom helmet?

 

I have more questions but if the ones at hand get answered won't need any more to ask. Thank you in advance.

[EPDGaffney]

1. That should work, sure, but you'll be limited if you're just using the GECK, in that whatever was exported as a separate object will get a separate texture slot that you can change to whatever you wish, but even if the meshes are not contiguous, if they were exported as one object, they'll all share the same texture in the GECK. When you open the armour's model selection window, you can click on the individual texture slots that were left open to you and you can select the Null Texture Set. I don't believe this will cause any trouble in-game, but just check for yourself.

 

2. Helmets are done in one of two ways: either making a completely new head object (which the Chinese Stealth Armour Helmet does) or making a headgear item that is added to a character's head model. The first method is much easier. The second requires a custom .egm file to make the item conform to different head shapes and sizes (hair, hats, glasses and so on all have these files), and it's a bit of a pain to do.

 

So, we'll discuss the first method. It basically copies the vanilla head model and then does whatever it wants to that model, deleting and adding and retexturing. It requires a modeller to be careful not to move and of the vertices at the very bottom of the model, as those must line up perfectly with the body model, which cuts off by the infamous 'neck seam area'. Pretty much everything else is fair game.

 

Models that use the first method can take up any of the body slots available that are not the head, sometimes taking the hair slot and sometimes not (leading to bald characters if the spot where the hair was is still visible). Models that use the second method (like the CSH) take up the head slot and probably the hair slot as well, making the character's entire head invisible until unequipping the armour.

 

So, it's a fake neck built into the model. I'm not sure why you expected it to have a separate neck model, though. For dismemberment stuff? That's done with vertex groups in Blender, but can be altered in NifSkope (with less control than in Blender, as far as I know).

[BBourbon]

Firstly, thank you for your respond.

 

1. That should work, sure, but you'll be limited if you're just using the GECK, in that whatever was exported as a separate object will get a separate texture slot that you can change to whatever you wish, but even if the meshes are not contiguous, if they were exported as one object, they'll all share the same texture in the GECK. When you open the armour's model selection window, you can click on the individual texture slots that were left open to you and you can select the Null Texture Set. I don't believe this will cause any trouble in-game, but just check for yourself.

 

Fair enough, but I wanna step up my game; let's say I imported an armour from the game and edited it in 3DS Max. Just removed some objects and moved/deleted some verts. Since skinning would be in tact, will it properly work if I export it and replace it with the proper model in the game folder? Alright I tried that and I guess that's a no. Is there a way to modify a vanilla armour and make work with minimum effort? An easy method for that?

 

So, it's a fake neck built into the model. I'm not sure why you expected it to have a separate neck model, though.

 

AHH, but it's not! As I mentioned I checked every file in geck regarding CSH (and also Chinese Stealth Armour) those include the model files and no neck were to be found for both in CSH and CSA ; ) And CSH is using the head slot and head is completely invisible while neck is visible and retextured. So it's still a puzzle. ( :

Edited June 7, 2018 by BBourbon

[EPDGaffney]

I'm not sure what you did but I find editing armour and making new ones very easy now that I understand technically what the engine requires for the files to work. I think this is the best guide on the subject, though it uses Blender (should be easy enough to translate to Max I think):

https://wiki.nexusmods.com/index.php/Rigging_skinning_and_dismemberment

 

You need version 2.49b if you want to switch to Blender for this, readily available with this engine in mind via the links in Dubious's guide:

https://wiki.nexusmods.com/index.php/Getting_started_creating_mods_using_GECK#Image_Tools

 

Not sure what you mean about the neck model. It has a neck built into the head model, the helmet in this case, like every article of clothing in the game that takes up the head slot. The head in this game is the entire head and neck, but with no eyes, hair, teeth, or tongue (the eyes, hair, teeth, and tongue get their own models, but apart from the hair are still invisible when something is worn that takes up the head slot; the hair remains visible unless the headgear uses the hair slot).

 

These are the different pieces of the complete armour (meatcaps are removed for visibility):

https://prnt.sc/js7evz

https://prnt.sc/js7f0v

https://prnt.sc/js7f69

https://prnt.sc/js7fbq

https://prnt.sc/js7fet

 

What you're describing, if I understand what you mean, isn't the way the engine works. The model would have to use the skin shader to do anything involving human skin colour that is dependent on race. Independent of race (as is the case here), they just copy the neck from the vanilla head model and retexture that, then include that in the helmet, all of which uses the default shader.

 

Edit: Should have made it clear that I had to add the helmet to the armour to show it that way; there is no file in the game that contains the body and head as one file.

Edited June 7, 2018 by EPDGaffney

[BBourbon]

I'm not sure what you did but I find editing armour and making new ones very easy now that I understand technically what the engine requires for the files to work. I think this is the best guide on the subject, though it uses Blender (should be easy enough to translate to Max I think):

https://wiki.nexusmods.com/index.php/Rigging_skinning_and_dismemberment

 

You need version 2.49b if you want to switch to Blender for this, readily available with this engine in mind via the links in Dubious's guide:

https://wiki.nexusmods.com/index.php/Getting_started_creating_mods_using_GECK#Image_Tools

 

Not sure what you mean about the neck model. It has a neck built into the head model, the helmet in this case, like every article of clothing in the game that takes up the head slot. The head in this game is the entire head and neck, but with no eyes, hair, teeth, or tongue (the eyes, hair, teeth, and tongue get their own models, but apart from the hair are still invisible when something is worn that takes up the head slot; the hair remains visible unless the headgear uses the hair slot).

 

These are the different pieces of the complete armour (meatcaps are removed for visibility):

https://prnt.sc/js7evz

https://prnt.sc/js7f0v

https://prnt.sc/js7f69

https://prnt.sc/js7fbq

https://prnt.sc/js7fet

 

What you're describing, if I understand what you mean, isn't the way the engine works. The model would have to use the skin shader to do anything involving human skin colour that is dependent on race. Independent of race (as is the case here), they just copy the neck from the vanilla head model and retexture that, then include that in the helmet, all of which uses the default shader.

 

Edit: Should have made it clear that I had to add the helmet to the armour to show it that way; there is no file in the game that contains the body and head as one file.

 

Oh man I realized that when I imported the helmet, you were totally right about the the neck mesh is there. Funny thing is, in the GECK the neck part of the object doesnt show up, strange.

 

Anyways, as always thank you for your help, I appriciate that a lot. But now I'm dealing with something else unfortunately.

 

I finally figured out how to weight armors, copying branches in nifscope and all but even tho I do everything correctly by the book the piece of armor doesnt show up in GECK.

 

The tutorial I use: http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/3ds_Max_armor_to_Fallout_New_Vegas

 

Now the source of the problem I suspect is version of the nif plugins for 3ds max. Even tho I have the same year of max as in the tutorial, my nif plugin is 3.7.xx, which is newer than tutorial's, and I heared many blender users having trouble for New Vegas with newer version of blender/nif script so they downgrade their blender and they are fine again. That is why I suspect my max's nifplugin is not for New Vegas but more like for Skyrim.

 

My solution would be exporting the weghted armour from 3ds max as nif, then import it in blender, then export it from blender so it might work. What do you think?

 

And sorry for long post..

 

Edit: Solved

Edited June 14, 2018 by BBourbon

[Deleted1205226User]

For Skinned item not appearing in Geck, see my answer in the Request thread.

[EPDGaffney]

Tends to have to do with the shader type or shader flags, as you no doubt found out. Editing or at least checking stuff in NifSkope after the export process is common for Blender users, and it wouldn't surprise me if the same were true for Max users. Glad you worked it out anyhow.

[BBourbon]

Tends to have to do with the shader type or shader flags, as you no doubt found out. Editing or at least checking stuff in NifSkope after the export process is common for Blender users, and it wouldn't surprise me if the same were true for Max users. Glad you worked it out anyhow.

Yea thanks, I actually never dreamed the things would go so smoothly. Now I have a rather out of the topic question: How does nexus and/or Bethesda feel about using/changing vanilla/dlc meshes to make mods? I mean half of the nexus uses vanilla assets with no problem but DLC assets are prohibited to mod the rules say. So if I modify and add the Bowie Knife from Lonesome DLC to core NV as a mod what happens to me?

 

And also I'd like to make main menu background/load screen poster replacer mods and I'd like to use a certain tv show's logos and wallpapers. Am I allowed that?

Edited June 14, 2018 by BBourbon

[EPDGaffney]

What you're supposed to do is simply to use the Bowie Knife form from Lonesome Road, thus causing your mod to require Lonesome Road, which is really not a problem as just about everyone that would go so far as to install mods for the game has all the DLC anyway.

 

As for using a television programme's art in your mod, you're really not supposed to upload that. Now, what we do sometimes (I've done it, and so have several other modders) is we actually secure permission via an e-mail. Crazy as it sounds, a lot of these companies really don't care if you're not selling it, and some of them even look at it as free advertising. So, you could try that if you want. You may get lucky.

[BBourbon]

What you're supposed to do is simply to use the Bowie Knife form from Lonesome Road, thus causing your mod to require Lonesome Road, which is really not a problem as just about everyone that would go so far as to install mods for the game has all the DLC anyway.

 

As for using a television programme's art in your mod, you're really not supposed to upload that. Now, what we do sometimes (I've done it, and so have several other modders) is we actually secure permission via an e-mail. Crazy as it sounds, a lot of these companies really don't care if you're not selling it, and some of them even look at it as free advertising. So, you could try that if you want. You may get lucky.

 

Brb, sending e-mail to HBO : P

 

But I wanna revisit the bowie knife model and add it to NV as a new bowie knife, THAT is where I'm roadblocked by the rules in theory : /