SSE To pack or not to pack? BSA/loose files....

[Vashra1]

Thus far, I have been told by mod authors of various levels of notability:

1. Loose files are the Devil. Skyrim was designed to load esps and bsas and not. ever. loose. files.

1.5 #1 but make an exception for SKSE64 scripts (and maybe PapyrusUtil scripts?)

2. Meshes and textures that are *replacers* don't matter...everything else needs to be in a bsa.

2.5 Meshes and Textures in mods without scripts don't matter, whether they are replacers or new.

3. The only thing that really *needs* to be packed into a bsa are scripts - you can leave the rest hanging out there.

4. This utterly does not matter, though of course a bunch of loose files means a fairly messy data folder, which can make uninstalling any given mod a pain.

5. Loose files are *better* because you can pick this file from mod a and that file from mod b and *really* customize.


...Votes? Suggestions? Rants?

The way some people have responded on Steam and Reddit and such...I kinda feel like I'm asking about folks religions.

[cdcooley]

Based on length and my strong opinion this might be considered a rant but I'm really just going to try an explain why people have such varying opinions.

 

People in category 1 are mostly right. BSAs are the ways mod authors should be distributing their resource files. And players should generally leave them packed into the BSAs except for the very rare case where a specific resource from one mod has to override the one from another that is loading later.

 

The game is designed with the assumption that resources will be packed into BSAs. You can't upload "loose files" to Bethesda's official modding site, so from the game developer's perspective the answer is BSAs always.

 

From a performance perspective BSAs will always win. With a BSA the OS only tracks the actual BSA file while the game keeps track of the resources inside of it and can access them efficiently. If you're using loose files then both the game and the operating system have to track each individual file. (And depending on the speed of your hard drive, whether it's fragmented or not, and the number of files in each folder the overhead of having the operating system manage all of those files could be fairly large.) But a few loose files won't kill your system's performance.

 

BSAs are most valuable for texture replacers because textures in a compressed BSA can be loaded by the game much faster than their loose file equivalents. Unfortunately, if a simple texture or mesh replacer packs resources into a BSA then there has to be a matching ESP to force it to load. (Although with the new ESL format, one of those lightweight plugins could be used to avoid taking up one of the more limited ESP slots.) The use of an extra ESP slot is why many mod authors who only create texture replacers would generally fall into category 5.

 

The category 1.5 folks are right that the SKSE64 scripts are an odd case. My preference would be to pack those scripts into a BSA but that requires either modifying an INI file to force that BSA to load or creating a dummy ESP. Since there really aren't very many of those scripts and they absolutely do need to be loaded instead of alternative versions that might get packed into other mods leaving them loose isn't a terrible idea.

 

The game does also support loose files which override all resources packed into BSAs. That allows the sort of customization the folks talk about in your category 5, but it's important to note that if you're dumping every resource in as a loose file then you MUST manage ALL of them to ensure the correct one is being installed last. The folks in category 4 are mostly correct except that it will result in a giant mess unless you understand how the game works or don't have any mod conflicts. It's horrible advice for anyone but an expert at getting mods to work. You get people in your categories 2, 2.5, and 3 specifically because when the wrong version of a script gets loaded you'll have major problems and the right version is always the one from the last mod in your load order that included it.

 

The only reason there's even a debate about this is that in the games before Skyrim BSA archive loading was imperfect, with resources being loaded in basically random order. That led to people avoiding BSAs and that then created the need for mod managers to help resolve those resource file conflicts. With Skyrim, modding becomes much easier, but only if mod authors are considerate enough to pack their resources into a BSA.

 

People are far better off having resources packed into BSAs so that they load in the same order as the ESPs in almost every case. Players who feel they need things loaded in another way can extract whatever they want from the BSAs but mod authors shouldn't be distributing loose files in most cases. The texture replacer situation is unfortunate since the mod author needs to balance the efficiency of a BSA with the overhead of an otherwise empty ESP or ESL. (Again, with the introduction of the ESL format that decision should be much easier since an ESL doesn't take up an ESP slot.)

 

In my own game if a mod doesn't come with a BSA I pack all of its resources myself before installing it. The only loose files in my data folder are a handful of script files to resolve some mod conflicts and the resources I'm currently using while creating or updating one of my own mods. Even the resources for my own mods are packed into a BSA and the loose files removed unless I'm actively working on that particular mod.

[TheWilloughbian]

Based on length and my strong opinion this might be considered a rant but I'm really just going to try an explain why people have such varying opinions.

 

People in category 1 are mostly right. BSAs are the ways mod authors should be distributing their resource files. And players should generally leave them packed into the BSAs except for the very rare case where a specific resource from one mod has to override the one from another that is loading later.

 

The game is designed with the assumption that resources will be packed into BSAs. You can't upload "loose files" to Bethesda's official modding site, so from the game developer's perspective the answer is BSAs always.

 

From a performance perspective BSAs will always win. With a BSA the OS only tracks the actual BSA file while the game keeps track of the resources inside of it and can access them efficiently. If you're using loose files then both the game and the operating system have to track each individual file. (And depending on the speed of your hard drive, whether it's fragmented or not, and the number of files in each folder the overhead of having the operating system manage all of those files could be fairly large.) But a few loose files won't kill your system's performance.

 

BSAs are most valuable for texture replacers because textures in a compressed BSA can be loaded by the game much faster than their loose file equivalents. Unfortunately, if a simple texture or mesh replacer packs resources into a BSA then there has to be a matching ESP to force it to load. (Although with the new ESL format, one of those lightweight plugins could be used to avoid taking up one of the more limited ESP slots.) The use of an extra ESP slot is why many mod authors who only create texture replacers would generally fall into category 5.

 

The category 1.5 folks are right that the SKSE64 scripts are an odd case. My preference would be to pack those scripts into a BSA but that requires either modifying an INI file to force that BSA to load or creating a dummy ESP. Since there really aren't very many of those scripts and they absolutely do need to be loaded instead of alternative versions that might get packed into other mods leaving them loose isn't a terrible idea.

 

The game does also support loose files which override all resources packed into BSAs. That allows the sort of customization the folks talk about in your category 5, but it's important to note that if you're dumping every resource in as a loose file then you MUST manage ALL of them to ensure the correct one is being installed last. The folks in category 4 are mostly correct except that it will result in a giant mess unless you understand how the game works or don't have any mod conflicts. It's horrible advice for anyone but an expert at getting mods to work. You get people in your categories 2, 2.5, and 3 specifically because when the wrong version of a script gets loaded you'll have major problems and the right version is always the one from the last mod in your load order that included it.

 

The only reason there's even a debate about this is that in the games before Skyrim BSA archive loading was imperfect, with resources being loaded in basically random order. That led to people avoiding BSAs and that then created the need for mod managers to help resolve those resource file conflicts. With Skyrim, modding becomes much easier, but only if mod authors are considerate enough to pack their resources into a BSA.

 

People are far better off having resources packed into BSAs so that they load in the same order as the ESPs in almost every case. Players who feel they need things loaded in another way can extract whatever they want from the BSAs but mod authors shouldn't be distributing loose files in most cases. The texture replacer situation is unfortunate since the mod author needs to balance the efficiency of a BSA with the overhead of an otherwise empty ESP or ESL. (Again, with the introduction of the ESL format that decision should be much easier since an ESL doesn't take up an ESP slot.)

 

In my own game if a mod doesn't come with a BSA I pack all of its resources myself before installing it. The only loose files in my data folder are a handful of script files to resolve some mod conflicts and the resources I'm currently using while creating or updating one of my own mods. Even the resources for my own mods are packed into a BSA and the loose files removed unless I'm actively working on that particular mod.

 

This a great explanation. Thank you.

[Deleted3897072User]

My take:

 

SKSE plugins have to be loose files otherwise SKSE can't see them.

Custom animations need to be loose files otherwise FNIS can't see them.

Otherwise, packing everything into a bsa is the right thing to do when a mod is ready for publishing.

[thumbincubation]

From a user's point of view, I am beginning to wish more modders had packed their assets, because my data folder is a legit 3 ring circus now.

[TheWilloughbian]

From a user's point of view, I am beginning to wish more modders had packed their assets, because my data folder is a legit 3 ring circus now.

 

Yeah, that's how mine is.

[MacBran]

I use Mod Organiser, so the point 4 is not an issue, but I suppose that all the rest are still relevant ?

[cdcooley]

I use Mod Organiser, so the point 4 is not an issue, but I suppose that all the rest are still relevant ?

Yes, Mod Organizer was specifically created to handle the chaos of loose files. And initially Tannin recommended extracting files from BSAs because it was assumed that would be the best way to handle resources (because it always had been in previous games). When he found that the BSA system finally worked reasonably in Skyrim he moved BSA extraction to a plugin instead of being a main part of Mod Organizer. I still don't think some people (the category 5 folks) have forgiven him for that because they want to micro-manage every single file. But even now Mod Organizer still has a core feature of treating load order and install order as two separate things which can lead to problems when the wrong resources get loaded. Basically Mod Organizer adds a layer of complexity to the process, but that's because it's such a powerful tool.

[MacBran]

Ok, I'm thinking of packed my divers SSE conversion in BSA.

I know I can do that in the CK, but that there is the archive.exe tool that seems more convenient.

But I don't find this program in my "steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition" folder, and no other folder either.

I have redownload the CK, but it's still missing...

 

Is it still available for SSE ?

If so, how I could get it ?

[Sticz]

I use Mod Organiser, so the point 4 is not an issue, but I suppose that all the rest are still relevant ?

I use MO as well and still like everything packed into BSAs because it really helps my OCD. I also like FOMOD folders even though MO doesn't use the screenshot or description... I should probably be on more medication.