Complete Carryweight-system Overhaul

[Leeira]

Hello, I've started to do a mod which adds immersion to the carryweight-system. It no longer only depends on the weight, but instead you are limited to carry a certain ammount of certain items. For example it is not realistic to be able to carry multiple sets of heavy armor or 10 swords and still be able to move normaly and fight.

So I plan to have the following values:

 

2 Daggers

2 One-handed weapon OR 1 Two-handed weapon

2 bows (not sure about that, maybe only 1)

1 set of heavy armor AND 1 set of light armor

30 arrows

20 potions

While single numbers may be changed, just say what you think would be best.

 

But I need ideas on how to deal with a big problem:

You can no longer take as much loot with you as before. So, how to compensate the "loss" of gold?

[mojodajojo]

Hello, I've started to do a mod which adds immersion to the carryweight-system. It no longer only depends on the weight, but instead you are limited to carry a certain ammount of certain items. For example it is not realistic to be able to carry multiple sets of heavy armor or 10 swords and still be able to move normaly and fight.

So I plan to have the following values:

 

2 Daggers

2 One-handed weapon OR 1 Two-handed weapon

2 bows (not sure about that, maybe only 1)

1 set of heavy armor AND 1 set of light armor

30 arrows

20 potions

While single numbers may be changed, just say what you think would be best.

 

But I need ideas on how to deal with a big problem:

You can no longer take as much loot with you as before. So, how to compensate the "loss" of gold?

 

I remember in Dungeon Siege there was a "transmute?" (or something like that) spell you could cast and it would turn items on the ground into gold. However, for the sake of balance it was much less gold than what you would get for hauling the items to the vendor.

[kuertee]

I'm all for this mod. ;)

But in regards to gold, there's too much already in the game. Don't worry about it. I certainly don't - check my mods out and you'll see that they are all designed to be a money sink.

 

EDIT: For e.g. I just started a game as a patron of the inn in Falkreath (i.e. Arthmoor's Live Another Life). After my first adventure into the caves where you get Haldir's staff, I still ended up with well over 1k gold - after selling whatever loot I can carry (I can't carry too much with my mods.) to the trader in Falkreath. And that's after all the gold-limiting features of my active mods. That was my first outing! There is too much gold in the game.

Edited May 15, 2012 by kuertee

[Leeira]

@kuertee: Ok, then what do you think about my above values?

@mojodajojo: I will not use something like transmute, because I want as much immersion as possible and I don't feel that this is immersive.

 

Oh, and does anybody know what the keyword for potions and poisons is? The only keyword with "potion" in it was the vendor thing.

[corlagon37]

You'll need some way to loot the bodies which brings me to an idea I thought off.

 

Some kind of logistics NPC, a follower who doesn't fight just follows behind the player. Treat him sort of like a portable chest you could

link him to the players horse so all items given to him will be on your horse for sale later on. Ive always imagined an adventurer might

have an entourage of people who deal with the more mundane tasks such as cooking setting up camp etc, they deal with the logistics

while the adventurer makes the money. The follower could be given a long follow distance behind the adventurer to keep him out of

combat, likely he/she would want to be a ways back considering his/her job is simply transporting loot.

[Leeira]

This is an idea, but I think it would just add some more to fiddle but with the same result as beeing able to carry the things yourself. Maybe this NPC costs some gold every day (and it will not only be a few coins) because, of course, you have to pay for his work. Speaking of immersion, this would definately be immersive.

But this would be a feature in the future, because it will be my first mod and I first have to deal with the basics (all item types and so on). For now, I only have weapons and armors build into the mod right now.

[kuertee]

Hey Leeira, the limits look good. 1 or 2 bows is much of a muchness. If you make the mod configurable, you can let the users decide not only this but all the limits - including the use of the NPC assistant.

[tox2ik]

(...) But in regards to gold, there's too much already in the game. Don't worry about it. I certainly don't - check my mods out and you'll see that they are all designed to be a money sink. (...) For e.g. I just started a game as a patron (...) I still ended up with well over 1k gold (...) That was my first outing! There is too much gold in the game.

Well, yeah.. the first time you go out you can fill some 250 units of weight (pounds?) but as you progress and accumulate "important" stuff or heavy armor there is not much space left. If you play with money-reduction and smarter-shopkeeps mods then its even harder.

I looked at your weight and money mods. They look good. I'm not installing them though because I have enough of a hard time getting rich (and I start new games all the time, as soon as i get to level ~ 50). The reason Is ACE - Comprehensive Enhancements and Phitts Alchemy Overhaul. Combined, they make grinding gold a whole lot more difficult.

 

My point is, the vanilla game does let you become right, especially after gaining a few levels, but that's not a reason to "not worry about the gold in the game" because It's important at lower levels. I don't even care to play my "beef" champs anymore because it is a lot more fun to start over and try a new build.

 

Factoring that in, I don't think I care much for OPs mod because it will cripple me in the beginning. My intention is not to discourage Leeira though, all I'm saying is you have to think about both early and late game.

 

 

I remember in Dungeon Siege there was a "transmute?" (or something like that) spell you could cast and it would turn items on the ground into gold.

There is a transmute Ore (iron -> silver -> gold) spell in

Halted Steam Camp

but it's Adept alteration and you need ~150 mana and ~75% mana regen to cast it effectively (55 pieces of iron ore to gold in about 15 min) at early levels. Casting it on anything other than ore in your inventory would be silly imho.

 

(...) Some kind of logistics NPC, a follower who doesn't fight just follows behind the player. Treat him sort of like a portable chest you could link him to the players horse so all items given to him will be on your horse for sale later on. (...)

 

That is more or less what I have been fixing to do in a mod and I think it's a great Idea. I think that simply adding commands to followers like "go and sell this to the closest vendor(s) and take as much as you think is reasonable for your troubles, we'll settle this next time we meet" would be nice.

 

2 Daggers

2 One-handed weapon OR 1 Two-handed weapon

2 bows (not sure about that, maybe only 1)

1 set of heavy armor AND 1 set of light armor

30 arrows

20 potions

 

My proposals, perhaps too liberal for your goal:

• 7 daggers (otherwise the craft-daggers -> enchant -> sell grind becomes impossible)
  It's fairly important when you want to level enchanting, especially if you never buy training.
  
• 4 one handed weapons AND 2 two-handed weapons.
  Because with you restrictions, you eliminate one strategy which involves disarming your enemies.
  
• 2 heavy armor [body], 2 ha [boots], 2 ha [helmet], 2 ha [gauntlets]. Same for light.
  Otherwise its impossible to carry enchant-skill outfits, like if you want unarmed and archer gloves, conjurer and destruction armor, etc
  
• Unlimited arrows with weight (about 0.05 weight units per each)
  I remember playing through Morrowind one time as an archer and constantly running out of arrows or inventory space because they were too heavy. So when they made them weightless in Skyrim I remember thinking that it was a clever decision which made the game more enjoyable.
  
• Dunno about the potions, I find them generally too heavy in vanilla Skyrim.
  
• 2 Bows at least because ACE - Archery distinguishes all bows in to long and light. Playing as an archer, you want to carry one of each.
  

Edited May 17, 2012 by tox2ik

[sukeban]

@Leeira

 

This mod sounds like a great idea! I've been working on a similar-themed mod also using the limited items idea. I'm going one two-handed (bow considered two-handed), one one-handed, and one dagger. As well as one of each weight class armor. Also adding %maxcarryweight movespeed scaling, a universal carryweight reduction (determined by race/gender, but usually ~80), and reducing the weight of worn weapons and armor. I guess it could be considered to be the slightly more masochistic younger brother to your mod.

 

In any case, I'd be interested as to how you've handled a) the issue of Misc. items and b) limited item implementation. I've been wrestling with the in-game sizes of Misc. items to try and achieve some sort of "realistic" prohibition on carried numbers, whilst not having to micromanage every Misc. item that can be picked up. I might just bite the bullet and assign new keywords to Misc. items (and probs potions while I'm at it) breaking them into large, med, and small and determining carried numbers like that. That's seriously groan material though, which is why I'm curious haha.

 

I've also got it so that prohibited items are automatically removed from inventory, which IS slightly annoying if you are the PC. It makes it hard to pass gear to your companion without dropping gear, passing, picking up, dropping, passing, etc. Not quite stellar gameplay. I'm thinking of reducing movespeed to 1 (because 0 defaults to 100) when holding items "in violation" of the carried limit, so that you can manage your inventory without hassle, but you can't fast travel or functionally DO anything worthwhile without dropping something. Again, just curious as to how you've grappled with that. I am by far a scripting novice so I am always interested in solutions that have been proven to work well :D

 

Also, these suggestions for a "logistics" hireling as seriously cool. That would be amazing if you could find a way to implement that.

 

kuertee -- That idea for mod config. is really, really good. That way everybody can "have their cake..." so to speak.

[Leeira]

Hey Leeira, the limits look good. 1 or 2 bows is much of a muchness. If you make the mod configurable, you can let the users decide not only this but all the limits - including the use of the NPC assistant.

Well, it's the first mod I ever did and I do not know how to do this. But maybe I can look into how other mods do this.

The mod works stable now and I changed some things:

- A few numbers.

- Pickaxe and Woodcuttersaxe are excluded from the WeaponCount.

- The normal racial MaxCarryWeight values are changed (85-130, depending on race. In vanilla they all were 300)

- All carryweight-raising effects from alchemy and enchantments are lowered to about the half of vanilla value.

- The SteedStone only gives 30 instead of 100 to MaxCarryWeight.

 

Factoring that in, I don't think I care much for OPs mod because it will cripple me in the beginning. My intention is not to discourage Leeira though, all I'm saying is you have to think about both early and late game.

 

My proposals, perhaps too liberal for your goal:

• 7 daggers (otherwise the craft-daggers -> enchant -> sell grind becomes impossible)
  It's fairly important when you want to level enchanting, especially if you never buy training.
  
• 4 one handed weapons AND 2 two-handed weapons.
  Because with you restrictions, you eliminate one strategy which involves disarming your enemies.
  
• 2 heavy armor [body], 2 ha [boots], 2 ha [helmet], 2 ha [gauntlets]. Same for light.
  Otherwise its impossible to carry enchant-skill outfits, like if you want unarmed and archer gloves, conjurer and destruction armor, etc
  
• Unlimited arrows with weight (about 0.05 weight units per each)
  I remember playing through Morrowind one time as an archer and constantly running out of arrows or inventory space because they were too heavy. So when they made them weightless in Skyrim I remember thinking that it was a clever decision which made the game more enjoyable.
  
• Dunno about the potions, I find them generally too heavy in vanilla Skyrim.
  
• 2 Bows at least because ACE - Archery distinguishes all bows in to long and light. Playing as an archer, you want to carry one of each.
  

They are indeed too liberal for what I plan to do. For I don't think about weight, but about where to put all this things. I mean, you can't put 7 daggers, 4 one-handed and 2 two-handed weapons in your backpack and run arround, not to speak of all the armor. And I want to make it as immersive as possible, even if it get's harder for the player then.

But what did you mean with disarming your enemies? I played as a mage for most of the time so maybe I have missed a game mechanic, please explain it.

I play with alle the ACE things myself and yeah, I think two bows is the best.

But I don't like unlimited arrows. So you can't use your bow blind but have to manage your ammunition. A real ranger, hunter or whatever can't just take hundreds of arrows with him (beside two bows, blades and so on), thats a fact.

I don't think it cripples early-game because I like the idea that you can't buy that much things early on. I mean, you just escaped from beeing execuded with almost nothing in your pocket... You should not be able to buy this super-uber-sword two (ingame) days after.

You can still craft many things, then walk to the smith (you are slowed down but not unable to move) which is normally only a few steps away and sell him all the stuff.

But thanks for telling your oppinion. I know my mod does not suit everyone and I like to hear oppinions of people that aren't 100% confident with my mod, because maybe some things have to be overthought.

 

@Leeira

 

Also adding %maxcarryweight movespeed scaling, a universal carryweight reduction (determined by race/gender, but usually ~80), and reducing the weight of worn weapons and armor. I guess it could be considered to be the slightly more masochistic younger brother to your mod.

 

In any case, I'd be interested as to how you've handled a) the issue of Misc. items and b) limited item implementation. I've been wrestling with the in-game sizes of Misc. items to try and achieve some sort of "realistic" prohibition on carried numbers, whilst not having to micromanage every Misc. item that can be picked up. I might just bite the bullet and assign new keywords to Misc. items (and probs potions while I'm at it) breaking them into large, med, and small and determining carried numbers like that. That's seriously groan material though, which is why I'm curious haha.

 

I've also got it so that prohibited items are automatically removed from inventory, which IS slightly annoying if you are the PC. It makes it hard to pass gear to your companion without dropping gear, passing, picking up, dropping, passing, etc. Not quite stellar gameplay. I'm thinking of reducing movespeed to 1 (because 0 defaults to 100) when holding items "in violation" of the carried limit, so that you can manage your inventory without hassle, but you can't fast travel or functionally DO anything worthwhile without dropping something. Again, just curious as to how you've grappled with that. I am by far a scripting novice so I am always interested in solutions that have been proven to work well :D

 

Also, these suggestions for a "logistics" hireling as seriously cool. That would be amazing if you could find a way to implement that.

 

kuertee -- That idea for mod config. is really, really good. That way everybody can "have their cake..." so to speak.

How do you implement maxcarryweight movespeed scaling? I thought about that myself and do not know how to do it.

I lowered the MaxCarryWeight too, so I think I will not limit the number of misc items, instead they are limited by the MaxCarryWeight which is much smaller in my mod than in vanilla game, so no more 80 cooking pots. ^^ To categorize every single misc item would just be too much

I do not remove items automatically, because of the problems when crafting, equipping your companion and so on. I add an invisible 1000 weight item which makes you overburdend. This way it is easy to say how much you are really carrying (displayed weight-1000) and all the vanilla things like movement speed reduction, no more fast travel and so on are in place.

 

When the basic mod is released and there are no serious bugs which I haven't found myself, I may look into the selling-NPC.