Fear and Frenzy potions

[Dubnoman]

I have some questions about alchemy and certain potions and Illusion magic, as well. I'm playing a thief character, and I was thinking about putting perks into the Illusion perk tree, but I may not need that depending on some things. I am investing heavily in alchemy. I am finding that combat can be difficult for me sometimes, and that calm, fear, and frenzy spells from the Illusion school of magic could really help me out sometimes. However, I can make fear and frenzy potions. As my alchemy skills go up and I put more perks into certain things in alchemy, I can make stronger fear and frenzy potions. What I'd like to know is, when my alchemy skill is at 100 and I've spent all the perk points in alchemy perks that can affect the strength of fear and frenzy potions, will the strongest fear and frenzy potions work on the highest level enemies? I'd hate to be up around level 55 and find that these potions just don't work on enemies that level with my character.

 

I wonder the same about Illusion spells. The UESP Wiki says that certain Illusion spells only work up to certain levels, and this includes master level spells. I'd like to know this: If you have master level calm, fear, and frenzy spells and the Master of the Mind perk, can you cast fear, calm, and frenzy on any enemy (except maybe dragons)? Or will there be some enemies that are so high in their level that even the master level versions of those spells and the Master of the Mind perk won't help you?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Dubnoman

[Rooker75]

I've never tried the potions, so I can't say. I will say that I played one game as a master illusionist and the only enemies unaffected (once I maxed out the perk tree) were dragons and special named NPCs who were just flatly immune to all illusion magic. I can't remember if the dragon priests were immune. I think I got up to near level 60 in that game.

Edit// Also, mammoths are also completely immune to illusion. As a matter of fact, throwing a calm spell at it just ticks it off and makes it hostile.

 

Of course, you can dual-wield a spell to make it affect higher-level enemies, which obviously doesn't apply to potions.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Rooker75

[LuckyLucianoO]

Do not put any perks in that school as a thief character. People mix thief and assasin. This brake the immersion because they are two diffrent types. Sneak is your best friend against stonger enemies. As an alchemist you need paralysis and invisibility potions. Poisons are good too combined with pickpocket perk or arhcery This is execellent agist stonger enemies that catch you when you are with "unsneak" mod.If you did the thieves guild quest line then you might want shadowcloak of nocturnal. Also shadowstone is good. Тhis things are good compesation for lack of illusion perks. You dont need it at all. Shadow warrior is 1 of best perk in the game for me ;).

 

With my thief i pretty much dominate the world of skyrim on master with 3 perks invested in combat and in 1 defence skills- 2 perks in archery,1 in onesword and 1 in light armor. The other perks are invested in sneak speech pickpocket (maxed all) lockping (maxed all) and alchemy. I wear guild master set and nightingale bow. I trade with all alchemy merchants in skyrim and buy all their stuff cheap thanks to the hood and speech and when i max out inventory (610) i make potions and then sell it. With inverstor perk i sell the potions even fast. You raise your alchemy and speech skill to a higher level also.I dont abuse this strategy with fast travel.

 

And if you really role play thief you dont want any confrontations because you evade them with sneak. Speech is very useful for some quests and you can make fast money and evade the fights with some strong enemies. Fight only if nessecary. Shadows are your best friend against stronger enemies. Sneak archery sneak backstab 15x and bye bye. I dont recomend close battle against bosses. Just find a good dark place with biggest distance possible, do sneak and archery ( you could hit and run if enemie is close to detect you) and that's it. You oppperate in the cities mostly and when you are on the roads i suggest you to use a horse to avoid bears, ice wolfs, trolls and saber cats

 

Illusion perks are waste for thief character

Edited May 16, 2012 by LuckyLucianoO

[seanxx]

A problem i had with fear/frenzy potions on a bow was that the arrow would either kill a low ranked target (the kind of target that the potion would have worked on) or on a higher ranked enemy that can survive the poison delivery arrow - the potion didnt work on them because of their level.

a conundrum

[Dubnoman]

Do not put any perks in that school as a thief character. People mix thief and assasin. This brake the immersion because they are two diffrent types. Sneak is your best friend against stonger enemies. As an alchemist you need paralysis and invisibility potions. Poisons are good too combined with pickpocket perk or arhcery This is execellent agist stonger enemies that catch you when you are with "unsneak" mod.If you did the thieves guild quest line then you might want shadowcloak of nocturnal. Also shadowstone is good. Тhis things are good compesation for lack of illusion perks. You dont need it at all. Shadow warrior is 1 of best perk in the game for me ;).

 

With my thief i pretty much dominate the world of skyrim on master with 3 perks invested in combat and in 1 defence skills- 2 perks in archery,1 in onesword and 1 in light armor. The other perks are invested in sneak speech pickpocket (maxed all) lockping (maxed all) and alchemy. I wear guild master set and nightingale bow. I trade with all alchemy merchants in skyrim and buy all their stuff cheap thanks to the hood and speech and when i max out inventory (610) i make potions and then sell it. With inverstor perk i sell the potions even fast. You raise your alchemy and speech skill to a higher level also.I dont abuse this strategy with fast travel.

 

And if you really role play thief you dont want any confrontations because you evade them with sneak. Speech is very useful for some quests and you can make fast money and evade the fights with some strong enemies. Fight only if nessecary. Shadows are your best friend against stronger enemies. Sneak archery sneak backstab 15x and bye bye. I dont recomend close battle against bosses. Just find a good dark place with biggest distance possible, do sneak and archery ( you could hit and run if enemie is close to detect you) and that's it. You oppperate in the cities mostly and when you are on the roads i suggest you to use a horse to avoid bears, ice wolfs, trolls and saber cats

 

Illusion perks are waste for thief character

 

You just gave me a lot of pointers on being a good thief. Thanks! I tried to give you a plus 1 reputation point (a kudos), but I keep getting a 404 error.

 

I'm not going to get into the Illusion perk tree. I'm putting 11 perks into archery, 13 into alchemy, 6 into light armor, 10 into sneak, 7 into lockpicking, 4 into pickpocketing, 2 into speech, and 1 into smithing. What two perks did you put into one-handed? 2/5 of the Armsman perk? Maybe that isn't a bad idea, since that affects daggers in sneak mode (so maybe I'll put two perks into one-handed). I heard you can do dual wielding dagger attacks in a sneak attack for double the damage. Is this true?

Edited May 17, 2012 by Dubnoman

[LuckyLucianoO]

A problem i had with fear/frenzy potions on a bow was that the arrow would either kill a low ranked target (the kind of target that the potion would have worked on) or on a higher ranked enemy that can survive the poison delivery arrow - the potion didnt work on them because of their level.

a conundrum

 

Hi. I will reveal you a strategy that might help you to solve your problem. Think like a thief. You are virtuoso. Be creative. So...to the point. When you have low level frenzy/fear potions against weak and strong enemies (for example bandits)- first pickpocket the stonger bandit. With the perks you should be able to disarm and unarmor him. But be careful it's very hard. Sometimes is impossible to pickpocket heavy armor or some really valuable weapon. Disarm is quite enough. But if you can pickpocktet all his armor do it. After this you pickpocket (with the perk that allow you to put poisons in the pockets) the weaker enemy with the poison of frenzy and VOILA :)! Use silent roll to reach bigger distance quickly and then use your bow. It will be hard for the stonger bandit to eliminate the weaker with punches only. Be professional :). I hope i help you

 

@Dubnoman well thank you for the appreciation. I am really glad that my post help you.

 

As for your question for one sworded perks. I use only 1 dagger as a proper thief so yea armsman is the only perk you need from that tree. Max it! Personally i dont use smithing on my thief but if you feel this is the right way do it :). For a good thief the most critical skills are lockpicking, pickpocket and sneak. The speech make you really good and influencial trader with ability to bribe persuade and intmidate. And if you have the amulet that Brynjolf give you when you finish the main questline of the thieves guild + the perk for persuasion you can persuade the people everytime. Combined with the bribe perk you can persuade the guards to let you go without pay some fine. Or you can bribe them then steal their gold. But dont act like a lame and steal the gold during the day in front of so many people. Sure you will succeed but in real situation you wouldnt be able to do it. So steal from him when nobody can see you. When you do thievery make it always at night. I will quote Delvin Mallory ( a member from the TG): "We work with the shadows". And this is damn right :).

 

May the shadows be with you!

 

Cheers :)

Edited May 17, 2012 by LuckyLucianoO

[LuckyLucianoO]

delete Edited May 17, 2012 by LuckyLucianoO

[Dubnoman]

A problem i had with fear/frenzy potions on a bow was that the arrow would either kill a low ranked target (the kind of target that the potion would have worked on) or on a higher ranked enemy that can survive the poison delivery arrow - the potion didnt work on them because of their level.

a conundrum

 

Hi. I will reveal you a strategy that might help you to solve your problem. Think like a thief. You are virtuoso. Be creative. So...to the point. When you have low level frenzy/fear potions against weak and strong enemies (for example bandits)- first pickpocket the stonger bandit. With the perks you should be able to disarm and unarmor him. But be careful it's very hard. Sometimes is impossible to pickpocket heavy armor or some really valuable weapon. Disarm is quite enough. But if you can pickpocktet all his armor do it. After this you pickpocket (with the perk that allow you to put poisons in the pockets) the weaker enemy with the poison of frenzy and VOILA :)! Use silent roll to reach bigger distance quickly and then use your bow. It will be hard for the stonger bandit to eliminate the weaker with punches only. Be professional :). I hope i help you

 

@Dubnoman well thank you for the appreciation. I am really glad that my post help you.

 

As for your question for one sworded perks. I use only 1 dagger as a proper thief so yea armsman is the only perk you need from that tree. Max it! Personally i dont use smithing on my thief but if you feel this is the right way do it :). For a good thief the most critical skills are lockpicking, pickpocket and sneak. The speech make you really good and influencial trader with ability to bribe persuade and intmidate. And if you have the amulet that Brynjolf give you when you finish the main questline of the thieves guild + the perk for persuasion you can persuade the people everytime. Combined with the bribe perk you can persuade the guards to let you go without pay some fine. Or you can bribe them then steal their gold. But dont act like a lame and steal the gold during the day in front of so many people. Sure you will succeed but in real situation you wouldnt be able to do it. So steal from him when nobody can see you. When you do thievery make it always at night. I will quote Delvin Mallory ( a member from the TG): "We work with the shadows". And this is damn right :).

 

May the shadows be with you!

 

Cheers :)

 

I guess I'm not trying to make a true thief. I'd like my character to be a thief, but I want her to have many perks in archery. I'd like to do stealth attacks with a bow and sometimes with a dagger. I wanted most perks in archery, but I'm thinking of having less now since I'm thinking of using mostly stealth attacks now. I want to have perks in speechcraft for bribery and haggle (to get to bribery). But if you say that I can get away with all crimes with the persuasion perk and the amulet Brynjolf gives you, I might put perk points into those. I'm going to put more perks into pickpocketing, and I'm going to put perks into lockpicking (the perks I really want are the one that gives you more gold in chests and the one that increases the chances of valuable treasure in chests. I will put perks in novice locks through expert locks and also locksmith). I need to put a lot of perks into sneak and alchemy, too, and some into light armor to help keep me alive from skirmishes. I have one perk in snithing for 'basic smithing' (from a mod, allows the crafting of many mod armors and weapons; replaces steel smithing). I will put a second perk into smithing for arcane smithing ( for enchanted armor).

 

So, for the armsman perk, with 5/5 perks, you say I should fill that up? Did you get any other perks in one-handed? Also, I don't want shadow warrior, seems cheap. Or should I go for it? Another thing I plan for my character is that alchemy makes a lot of money. I don't want to make too much money from it because then it'll take away from the rewards of thievery. So I will not get the merchant perk that allows me to sell any item to any merchant, and I will not fast travel around Skyrim to sell off a large amount of potions (I'm trying to fast travel very little, but sometimes I'll do it as it really saves time sometimes, and I'll try to only fast travel when I'm on top of a horse, to make it more believable, as in, if she encounters any danger going from point A to point B, she just rides away from it).

 

Edit: LuckyLuciano, what do you think of this character build? http://skyrimcalculator.com/#126496

 

I don't think I want silence and shadow warrior, as they might take away a lot of challenge (plus, if I really want the benefits of the perk silence, I can enchant some boots with muffle. The UESP says that any enchant on boots with muffle will muffle sound 100%, even with a petty soul gem and level 15 of enchanting). I have the pickpocket perks that I'd like. I don't want too many in lockpicking because there are so many other perks I want. For expert and master locks, I'll use fortify lockpicking rings (I'll use up to one on each hand - I have a mod that allows for multiple rings and necklaces). I will put perks into armsman for sneak attacks with daggers (and I have a mod that has a perk in sneak that will allow fortify one-handed apparel to work with sneak attacks with daggers, so I'll go around with a fortify one-handed ring). I will have perks in archery for sneak attacks with bows. I will have many perks in alchemy, as potions and poisons will be a big aid to me in combat.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Dubnoman