i dont use followers becouse of AI

[RedRavyn]

I don't use followers, so this issue is a different one for me. On the few occasions that I've had followers forced upon me by a quest they HAVE set off traps, although not always, and it's not always repeatable when they do. For me, though, I want my opponents to be smarter. Baboons fight smarter in real life than the NPCs in Skyrim do. I think a lot of the problem you're outlining is a Navmesh issue. The navigation grid in Oblivion was absolutely pathetic. Navmesh in Skyrim seems a lot better, but you can still see actors getting stuck in places where it makes no sense that they should get stuck. This frequently makes their AI stall out and sometimes the only way to get it started again is by using the console to physically reposition that actor.

 

Even so, the AI in both Oblivion and Skyrim leaves a lot to be desired. You can't make the excuse that this is an "open world", either. That doesn't make the AI more difficult to program. It should, in fact, make it easier to program. Unfortunately, short of creating a fully-scripted AI for each individual NPC in the game, there probably is no easy solution for how brain-dead actors in Skyrim frequently seem. There is a lot going on "behind the scenes" that is in the code for the game and is probably not alterable through mods. The AI creation feature in the CK is simplistic and rudimentary, at best. Still, a determined modder can create highly sophisticated AIs for ES games -- witness the Vilja companion for Oblivion.

 

Expecting Bethesda to spend the time and effort at giving us NPCs that don't block doorways and that stand around like lumps on a log when they should be going somewhere and doing things is probably asking for a bit much, though. Skyrim is a big, complex game that was rushed to partial completion by an idiot marketing department. It would take years for Bethesda to fix all the real issues, and they aren't even going to do that, let alone give us an AI that is on par with, say, the AI in Half-Life 2 or F.E.A.R.

 

It's not entirely about laziness or bad design policy, either. It's about the time element. I think Bethesda did a good job with some things in this game. The environment is lush and much more realistic than it was in Oblivion, for instance. I don't keep getting a feeling of deja vu every time I go into a cave or ruin. I like that. However, there is just so much that a limited group of developers can do in a limited amount of time, and the company is in business to make money. They have to release new products or they'll go under. Therefore, some things are going to get glossed over because they're going to spend their time and effort on the things (like glitz) that will attract the most buyers. Since most playes couldn't care less about advanced, smart AI in a game, this is one of the things that's going to be very low on any list of priorities for the developers.

[Stemin]

Even so, the AI in both Oblivion and Skyrim leaves a lot to be desired. You can't make the excuse that this is an "open world"

 

Just to clarify... I can't speak for anyone else, but I wasn't blaming the open world as the reason AI is poor. I was pointing out that in an open world game, the companions are a relatively small portion of the game and thus time wasn't spent on them. You did mention this very same thing later in your post.

 

Companions only existed in TES prior to Skyrim as quest helpers, and if I'm not mistaken most of the NPC's in Morrowind rarely even moved around. You don't just spend a ton of development hours on a new feature that might not be liked or even just used by your audience. What came before in other games is not something you compare when you're writing a game for YOUR audience.

 

I think you pointed this out as well.

[VileTouch]

i know this is not exactly the place, but since it's on topic, i would like to request a mod that adds a "please step away from the door" or "let me pass dammit!" to all npcs...specially followers :whistling:

[Balakirev]

Though you DO have to watch them closely, 'cause the crafty buggers will loot corpses and pick up a staff of fireballs if your not careful (Lydia seems able to find them everywhere, or maybe THAT'S where she disappears to all the time? She runs off to butcher a mage to steal their staff's! :unsure: )

 

Yes, that's a new little twist in companion AI behavior. While they would loot containers in Oblivion, they tended to do it less. Now, they do it a lot. I've not checked out the scripting for this yet, so I have no idea what's been changed.

 

There was a mod in Oblivion, Companion Master, that included among its options forcing a companion to use the weapon and armor it currently had ("Lock Companion Gear"). I sorely miss that in Skyrim. Even if you have to rummage through a companion's inventory, they should never have the option to use whatever they want. Especially if it's a casting weapon. It's like giving a child a grenade launcher.

[RedRavyn]

@ Stemin: I wasn't sure whether or not you were blaming the open world theme in Skyrim with the overall poor AI in the game. I've heard other people suggest that actors have a hard time getting around and doing what they're supposed to be doing in an open world, though, so I thought I'd put that myth to rest.

 

The main problem with the NPC AI in general is that it stalls out so frequently that it's almost a joke. If you follow someone too closely while they're talking to you, and they finish they'll turn around and face you, completely forgetting what they were supposed to be doing, for instance. Sometimes you can bump them and get them going, again. Sometimes you can interact with them and jump-start their current actions. Many times the only option you have is to load a prior save or resort to console commands to physically move them to a different location.

 

This issue actually breaks some quests, since there might be no way for a console user to fix the problem. I've encountered this on a number of occasions, where even using the "moveto player" command wouldn't jump-start the NPCs AI. I've had to completely restart the quest "Waking Nightmare" on a number of occasions because Erandur can get stalled out walking up the steps in Nightcaller Temple and nothing, short of reverting to a prior save before entering the temple, can fix the problem.

 

This is exacerbated when the NPCs in question are in "follow", rather than "lead" mode, because then their AI has only one agenda and that's to follow you. They don't have a set destination. I really don't know what the specific issue is with this kind of behavior, but it's so common in Skyrim (never was so with Oblivion) that I suspect it's a flaw "under the hood" -- not accessible without modifying the actual game code.

[sajuukkhar9000]

I know this is way late but

 

OP

 

You are aware that FEAR 1's AI was mostly fake?

 

The AI was programmed to take cover at forward positions, but the game makers desgined the maps in such a way that a "forward position" made it seem like they were flanking you.

 

The entirety of FEAR 1's AI was smoke and mirrors brought about through clever level design.

 

Flanking? fake

Splitting into teams? fake

Edited May 24, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Perraine]

i know this is not exactly the place, but since it's on topic, i would like to request a mod that adds a "please step away from the door" or "let me pass dammit!" to all npcs...specially followers :whistling:

 

Try this

 

... And LYDIA ?!?! With a Staff of Fireballs ? :wallbash: That's some scary s@*t right there! :psyduck: What business does Lydia have using a magic staff anyway? :ohmy: ...

 

I did find one helpful console command though ... From the UESPWiki

 

"sifh" = (without quotes) Set whether an actor should ignore friendly hits: E.g., "sifh 1" (without quotes) will make the selected actor ignore friendly hits.

[VileTouch]

i know this is not exactly the place, but since it's on topic, i would like to request a mod that adds a "please step away from the door" or "let me pass dammit!" to all npcs...specially followers :whistling:

 

Try this

 

... And LYDIA ?!?! With a Staff of Fireballs ? :wallbash: That's some scary s@*t right there! :psyduck: What business does Lydia have using a magic staff anyway? :ohmy: ...

 

I did find one helpful console command though ... From the UESPWiki

 

"sifh" = (without quotes) Set whether an actor should ignore friendly hits: E.g., "sifh 1" (without quotes) will make the selected actor ignore friendly hits.

 

aah, thank you very much for this! i'll try it right away...ah that command will definitely be useful too...very soon >:D