Slowing down leveling?

[Jesse_Dylan]

In my first playthrough (where I deliberately avoided the main quest and all side quests), I used the 20% skill increase standing stones, and I went for the rested bonuses. I didn't think about it. I just did it because the game seemed to encourage me to. Well, I leveled up crazy fast. This was exacerbated by my power-leveling of smithing in my exuberance to get cool new gear. What it amounted to was that my levels increased extremely quickly, and past 50, it began to feel a bit unsatisfying. I had plenty of game left, and I felt like I shouldn't be so high-level.

 

In my current playthrough, I've avoided the skill increase bonuses to the point where I refuse to even so much as sleep. However, I'm still leveling quickly. I've escaped Helgen and haven't done a single quest. I've looted a mine, and I'm at level 4 already!

 

I know there's a mod out there that not only slows skill progression but can make it so non-combat skills don't count towards levels. At first, this seems like a fix to my woes, but then again, if I can raise my smithing and alchemy with impunity, won't I be horribly overpowered for my level with uber equipment and potions?

 

So maybe just finding something to universally slow skill gain would be best? Or should I just stop whining and play the game as it was intended but continuing in my avoidance of bonuses?

 

Basically, I want to get as much out of the game, and this character, as possible. I don't want to rise to level 50 in record speed and then trot around the game world as a god doing "kill the rats" quests.

 

How do you guys play? How do you get around this problem? Help! I feel like I need to solve this before I even continue playing and maybe even start over.

[sukeban]

Hiya Jesse_Dylan

 

Not to shamelessly promote my own mod or anything (:D), but I've a small mod that probably contains the sort of functionality that you are looking for, it's here:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=17002

 

Basically, it starts you at level zero at all of your non-racial bonus skills and gives you only +5 and +10 to those skills that you receive starting bonuses in. Apart from that, I've modified the leveling formula (as well as the leveling formulas for many of the individual skills) to accommodate this new arrangement. The result is that the PC levels much more slowly in the early going (though not ridiculously slowly) and slightly faster through the mid- and upper-levels. I can personally guarantee you that you will not make level four by clearing out Embershard Mine. Maybe you will be level two, maaaaaybe.

 

Might be your cup of tea, might not. If you are so inclined, you can change the leveling formula to suit your own taste as well.

 

The normal leveling formula is:

 

XP Required for Next Level = Base + (Current Level + 1)Multiplier

In vanilla, the Base variable is 75 and the Multiplier variable is 25, making for a total of 100 XP needed to make your first level

 

These values are housed in GMSTs in the CK, and are:

fLevelUpBase

fLevelUpMult

 

You can use those values to scale the formula to whatever you like.

 

XP is gained whenever you level up a skill, with the amount of XP gained being equal to the skill rank that you gained, so going from level 19 --> 20 in Speechcraft would net you 20XP toward making your next character level.

 

Hope that helps!

Edited May 19, 2012 by sukeban

[Jesse_Dylan]

Cool, I'll check that out! When you say levels slowly at the beginning but slightly faster mid-level and upper, do you mean slightly faster than vanilla, or slightly faster than at the beginning of the game (with this mod)? I'm assuming the latter.

 

If so, that sounds perfect, exactly what I'm looking for! Heading off to check it out now. Thanks very much. :)

[scottym23]

Hey as far as I can tell your question has been successfully answered, but I felt inclined reading this to at least post my thoughts on this issue as well. Getting smithing and alchemy to 100 quickly will give you around 17 levels which is outrageous imo. Around level 30 is when leveled items have their max stats, and being well over half way there with 2 skills is extreme. What's worse is that these skills are crucial to playing the game properly and efficiently (also to have a hell of a lot of fun :P). So if you decide that a mod fix or a game mechanics fix isn't for you, i'd suggest the following;

 

Get those skills up later on in the game, and when you eventually do level them don't rush to get to 100 really quickly. Also, you could try and not power level these skills such as going to Whiterun and buying all of the iron ingots to smith massive amounts of iron daggers. Try and find ingots in mines, mine any ores you see, and kill all the creatures you can in order to get their hides to get your smithing up in that respect. It will not only take longer to level but will feel so much more rewarding.

 

The same goes for alchemy as well. Don't go out of your way to search for ingredients that will make the most expensive potions. Just play the game casually and when you come across an ingredient pick it up. Again leveling this way feels much more rewarding.

 

I have many accounts, and on one of them i'm not even getting up my smithing or alchemy a single level.This is partly because of the problem you're referring to, and also due to the fact that it makes the game's looting system a hell of a lot more interesting. When I was lvl 24 and had full Daedric on my smithing account, the mystery and thrill of getting to the end of a dungeon or ruin to find the chest was practically non existent. I'd quickly open it and only take the light weight items and coins because it wasn't even worth it to take ebony armor pieces because they weighed a ton!

On my account without smithing however who's level 30, opening a chest is extremely rewarding and thrilling. I can't wait to see if I find an armor piece or weapon that's better than the one I have now. It makes the dungeons so much more enjoyable, and in a way it's how I imagine Bethesda wanted us to play the game.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and hopefully it helped you in some way!

Edited May 19, 2012 by scottym23

[fraquar]

The leveling issue has several parts:

 

1) Reducing the rate at which some skills level (and at different rates depending on the skill in relatiion to your build), especially those that are tertiary skills that really shouldn't be impacting your characters level at all. Seriously, why should my player level increase just because I sell a bunch of junk at a predetermined rate anyway?

2) Eliminating or severely reducing the impact those skills have on your player level when they do increase

3) Eliminating or severely reducing the impact that single skill abuse (skill grinding) does to your character advancing prematurely.

 

There is nothing wrong with Speech leveling to 100, but IMO it shouldn't be easy to raise that skill to begin with and certainly not increase a 2hd warrior type character level when it does - just because he repeatedly hawks any and everything he can scrape up from every dungeon he clears out.

 

Fortunately there are apps for that which can bring all these things into perfect harmony if you so choose.

[Jesse_Dylan]

Aw man! I just wrote a massive reply, then accidentally clicked the "add reply" button instead of "post", and I lost it. :( Wah. I can't even remember what I said. I hate when that happens.

 

Basically, I agree with you 100%, and I thought you offered some extremely wise, useful advice. It sort of goes along with my current bend to avoid artificial skill raises (i.e. reading no skill books, using no increase percentage bonuses or rested bonuses (although my character misses sleeping). Basically, exercise restraint, sort of go against our gamer-instincts of maximizing our advantages, and it makes the game itself so much sweeter.

 

(I think said more stuff, but I can't remember what it was.)

 

I think my general desire, then, is to not just do the above, but also stretch out and lengthen the most rewarding part of the game for me, which is the early levels. As you wrote, I was overpowered by level 30 and had the best stuff. Finding treasures became meaningless. Money became meaningless (unless I wanted to buy equally-meaningless houses and decorate them). It's testament to the game and the interestingness of its quests that, despite very little sense of reward remaining, I still continued playing rather enrapturedly.

 

However, starting a new game, from level 1, I'm totally and happily absorbed in the sense of exploration, wonder and advancement. This is what I want to retain and extend. I shouldn't be "done" with this fun, early phase just after going through a few towns and doing 10 side quests. It should last longer. It's ruined by hurdling so quickly through the levels. Equipment drops start changing almost immediately, and there's no sense of reward.

 

I do like the idea of staring from zero, as in the mod referenced above, a total, feeble, rank amateur, and that first level gain really being something to savor. If I could just also dramatically lower the level-rising process, and then use my own restraint in order to keep from over-smithing and such, I think that would go a long way towards accomplishing my goals.

 

I also noticed sukeban has a mod in beta which totally revamps the equipment in the game, including the drops and leveled lists, and changes it so that different vendors all have different stuff, so there's a real sense of reward in finding what you're looking for, whether shopping or dungeon-diving, and I think the equipment found in dungeons would become all the more meaningful.

 

Let's hope I don't delete my post this time!

[Jesse_Dylan]

The leveling issue has several parts:

 

1) Reducing the rate at which some skills level (and at different rates depending on the skill in relatiion to your build), especially those that are tertiary skills that really shouldn't be impacting your characters level at all. Seriously, why should my player level increase just because I sell a bunch of junk at a predetermined rate anyway?

2) Eliminating or severely reducing the impact those skills have on your player level when they do increase

3) Eliminating or severely reducing the impact that single skill abuse (skill grinding) does to your character advancing prematurely.

 

There is nothing wrong with Speech leveling to 100, but IMO it shouldn't be easy to raise that skill to begin with and certainly not increase a 2hd warrior type character level when it does - just because he repeatedly hawks any and everything he can scrape up from every dungeon he clears out.

 

Fortunately there are apps for that which can bring all these things into perfect harmony if you so choose.

 

Of which mods do you speak? I'd love to check them out.

 

I agree with you on the above. The one danger I see is that, if I'm leveling very slowly and selling every item I come across, and my speech is going up but my level isn't, then I'm going to have too much gold for my level. However, this is certainly a lesser problem, I think, than the original problem we describe above, i.e. a warrior with low combat skills but high speech skills and a high level.

 

I'd love a solution to all three points you make above, especially if, in addition, I can further slow down leveling. At the current rate, I think if someone were to hit the main quest, nothing else, by the end of the main quest, they'd be level 30. This is just a guess, though. Maybe I piddle around so much that I can't help but level more than I intend, but still, I want my character to have enough lifespan to do the whole game. I already made a character and did the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, all the Daedric quests, and the Companions Quests, and I think she got to level 57 or so. There's still a ton of game left (all the side quests, misc quests, smaller faction quests, imperial quests, not to mention the main quest and all the random dungeon-diving I want to do), and I fear my new character will be overpowered long before I do it all.

[jet4571]

Also, you could try and not power level these skills such as going to Whiterun and buying all of the iron ingots to smith massive amounts of iron daggers. Try and find ingots in mines, mine any ores you see, and kill all the creatures you can in order to get their hides to get your smithing up in that respect. It will not only take longer to level but will feel so much more rewarding.

 

The same goes for alchemy as well. Don't go out of your way to search for ingredients that will make the most expensive potions. Just play the game casually and when you come across an ingredient pick it up. Again leveling this way feels much more rewarding.

 

That's what i do for crafting. I dont buy anything thats used for crafting and collect them as i go. it slows down the ability to get the best armor. I also dont use any found armor once I start making my own, some of them end up on display but usually I just sell them or learn the enchantment from it. I have an armor set for myself in each crafting tier that the only way to get them is make it, but thats a custom mod I made for myself by merging a couple armor mods and changing the stats and requirements to make them.

 

It amazes me how people will rush to get the best gear then complain the game is boring once they get it.

[Jesse_Dylan]

It amazes me how people will rush to get the best gear then complain the game is boring once they get it.

 

Well, in our defense, it's gamer-instinct, for one, and for another, the game really seems to encourage it, at least in my opinion. I know I keep harping about how quickly levels are gained. With the level gain comes more and more fancy equipment and tougher enemies. I suppose I'm used to console games, where everything was static, and you really wanted to try to get as strong as you could as quickly as you could. But even then, by end game, yeah, a bit overpowered. :)