Aurielius Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 A question for the proponents of equality of species. How far down the evolutionary ladder do you go for equality? Is bacteria an equal life form, if not then you are drawing a line so it's just a matter of degree and perspective as to where you do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stars2heaven Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I "value" human life more because humans are members of my own species. I also "value" other species more depending on their utility to my species. Other organisms which pose a threat to me or my species I "value" the least. A question to those who think humans are superior to other organisms. Where is human superiority derived from? We aren't the most numerous of species. We aren't the most successful of species in terms of longevity or the time our species has actually been around. We aren't most able to survive in the greatest number of environments. Our bodies are far from the most efficient in terms of the resources we have to consume in order to sustain ourselves. Exactly how are other organisms inferior to humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stars2heaven Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 A question for the proponents of equality of species. How far down the evolutionary ladder do you go for equality? Is bacteria an equal life form, if not then you are drawing a line so it's just a matter of degree and perspective as to where you do that. I'd go all the way down. The only place I would draw the line is between two nearly identical organisms. If both have a similar function in the same environment but one is better suited because of some adaptation that the other lacks, I'd say the more suitable one is superior. But I'm making a case for functional superiority, not this moral superiority that I sense this thread is actually about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stars2heaven Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 In fact, nearly every member of hominid has become extinct. ALL species of the genus Homo, except for ours, is extinct. Even our species very nearly became extinct once upon a time. Who knows what saved us, but our recent success as a species belies our true origins. The same cannot be said for members of other species that have been around and thriving without any hickups at all for tens or even hundreds of millions of years. Don't double post..there is an edit button. Thank you.~Lisnpuppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 A question for the proponents of equality of species. How far down the evolutionary ladder do you go for equality? Is bacteria an equal life form, if not then you are drawing a line so it's just a matter of degree and perspective as to where you do that. I'd go all the way down. The only place I would draw the line is between two nearly identical organisms. If both have a similar function in the same environment but one is better suited because of some adaptation that the other lacks, I'd say the more suitable one is superior. But I'm making a case for functional superiority, not this moral superiority that I sense this thread is actually about.In that case you better be prepared to starve since even plant life has bacteria. There is credible evidence that a plant 'screams' when picked, hence one could argue that it senses pain. Using Nature as my guideline there are predators and prey and there always have been, we are simply the most pervasive and successful current predator of the planet. I have zero problem with being the apex of the predator chain, if one day we are supplanted then so be it. If any of you want to see themselves morally no better than a cow and can't abide their use as edible livestock then thats your privilege, that just leaves more steak for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant0 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think that eventually we'll need to drop these sorts of political connotations. Life is life. The only difference is what value that life has for other living things. Going beyond a human example, there are fish which depend on other smaller fish to rid themselves of various parasites. To those fish, those smaller fish serve a role in their livelihood, and usually aren't on the menu, even from different, larger species. There is no such thing as equality. There is only one group or species being given a status relative to their impact on the surrounding environment. Cows, pigs, sheep, and most domesticated animals aren't extinct because they're a species which we have, through selective breeding, tailored to be suited to our needs so that we aren't having to slaughter whole tracts of woodland animals to supply us with meat, fur, leather, and other materials. And unlike wild species, we can breed them and care for them to be a renewable resource to meet our demands. Domestication and farming was what allowed humanity to settle into one area and minimize their global ecological impact instead of being nomadic and trying to strike a balance between starvation and depletion of the environment. It isn't that they are lowly creatures, it is that they only exist in their current form because we decided to take one of their ancient ancestors and give them food and relative safety from predators until we decide that we're hungry enough. It's not much different than we treat members of the working class... whom we use to create goods that make our life easier in exchange for payment, only to be cast aside when they are injured or no longer able to do the job, or when something else comes along to do the job better. There is no guilt in killing an animal for food, just as the animal would feel no guilt killing you for its own sustenance. It doesn't give us right to beat and mistreat animals for our entertainment, but it does establish a relationship of reasonably equal benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etang2 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Biologically speaking, all of us have "eaten" some one because once a body becomes deceased, it reenters the biological mass pool and its energy is used in other life forms, ewww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etang2 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 @VagrantThats exactly what I said at the beginning of this thread but because people chose to not read past comments, they go off on a tangent!The Truth lies partially in the future, but the answers lie in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I like my dog better than most people....... My dog is smarter than a fair few folks I deal with on a daily basis. (I work at staples.......) Dogs don't bite people for no particular reason..... well, ok, there are those that do, but, those would fall in to the 'dangerous' category. Based on what I have seen, dogs bite folks that provoke them. Is that the dogs fault? Heck no. Should the dog be put down for doing so? Not just no....... Unfortunately, where I live, if your dog bites someone, you are automatically at fault, and the dog is ordered put down. Which I find absolutely stupid..... but hey, it's the government, so, it's not like I should be surprised.... Humans are NOT at the top of the food chain. That all depends on circumstances. An unarmed human in the jungle is food for a fair few creatures........ even ARMED humans have become an afternoon snack for various critters...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etang2 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I like my dog better than most people....... My dog is smarter than a fair few folks I deal with on a daily basis. (I work at staples.......) Dogs don't bite people for no particular reason..... well, ok, there are those that do, but, those would fall in to the 'dangerous' category. Based on what I have seen, dogs bite folks that provoke them. Is that the dogs fault? Heck no. Should the dog be put down for doing so? Not just no....... Unfortunately, where I live, if your dog bites someone, you are automatically at fault, and the dog is ordered put down. Which I find absolutely stupid..... but hey, it's the government, so, it's not like I should be surprised.... Humans are NOT at the top of the food chain. That all depends on circumstances. An unarmed human in the jungle is food for a fair few creatures........ even ARMED humans have become an afternoon snack for various critters......You are confusing the statement. IT was not, are animals equal to Human, its is should other animals be considered equal... parathensis, to humanity. That means the entire species and as a fundemental compartement of the homosaipens, Humanity is at the top of the food chain! What is the only species that has the ability to wipe out every single other species on Earth? The fact that we even have this capability or have the thought mechanisms to enumeriate this capability makes us the food chains top.Also, the food chain, while were on it. The food chain dicates which organism will consume another for sustance, unless you can name another organism/animal that activally hunts and kills Humans with effeciency and in numbers, im afraid you may have to re-state your arguments because they will become null and void.In regards to the dog concept. It is all cirmstantial. It has been previously said that on this thread that all current animals and bio-organisms are created through years of selective breeding and natural selection. Domestic dogs are designed not to be aggressive by nature, inversely to their wild counterparrts, the wolf. The fact that they can be aggressive is merely a hard back to their orgininal nature. When you see a dog bite someone, you are seeing thousands of years of slective breeding unravel. Also, induvidual dogs will vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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