Requesting help troubleshooting some mods and general advice

[dtmwerks]

Hi all, long story short oblivion was my first game (for xbox) and it was a spur of the moment buy. Best decision of my gaming life. Despite all the limitations of console, I still had hundreds of good hours in the game. Then came skyrim and I got about 100-150 great hours (got a gaming PC for it!!) before it got a little dull. As a mage, it was a little dissapointing (college of winterhold questline), and immersion was hard to maintain with many quests being half broken. New mods continue to come up and I'd rather wait until the game has reached Oblivion's status, with almost all the good mods already out there, and everything basically patched up. So back to Cyrodil I go.

 

I've read a few guides and have OBMM and BOSS installed and some patches. My first hiccup came after I installed the USIP (installed UOP first)

 

While installing unofficial shivering isles patch, I got this prompt "unexpected arguments after function "installplugin" on line 32." Should I be worried? Googling the issue took me here

 

http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/ ... e__st__130

 

with one suggestion being "Open the script in OBMM and delete the True after InstallPlugin "USIPS Additional Changes.esp", that should make the exception go away."

 

However, for other people, the script error meant that USIP.esp just wouldn't install. Both USIP.esp and USIPS Additionalchanges.esp are installed, but I don't know what that installplugin error does and don't really want to go changing scripts since I don't even know what the problem is/what I'm doing.

 

Also (i'm kind of hopeless with computer stuff) I dled Midas Magic mod, which had no OBOM version so I dled the normal version and extracted it to the data folder like it asked me to. Am I supposed to extract just the .esp file? or also the .bsa and .txt to the data folder in Oblivion with all the plugins so far. I only see .esp files and unnamed ones there...

 

Or am I supposed to do none of this, and just make it into an OBOM file myself using these instructions from a FAQ i read.

 

Launch OBMM

1. Click create

2. Click add archive

3. Browse to the mod archive you want to convert and open it (this will import the files from the selected archive)

4. Check to make sure the data files were added with correct paths (switch to the Data Files view and make sure the file paths start with "Meshes\", "Textures\", etc.

5. If the mod uses a plugin, right-click the main .esp file and select import mod details (this will usually fill in most of the fields for you)

6. Fill in any blank fields (most are optional, except for name and version)

7. Click create omod

 

If so, am I suppoed to import everything? When I imported the mod archive, it only imported an .esp file. I don't even know how to check the correct paths and stuff.

 

Any help is appreciated!

[Striker879]

You could create the OMOD using those directions or manually install as you've started. I always suggest extracting the download to a temporary folder so you can see what the extracted download contains. Simplest way to do that is download to a named folder (lets say C:\OblivionDownloads\MidasMagic using your example mod.). When prompted on where to save the download you just click on the arrow button that moves you up a level until you get to the root of C drive (highest level where you can see all of the folders below). Click on the button to create a new folder and then rename 'New Folder' to 'OblivionDownloads' (no quote marks). The text New Folder will already be highlighted so you can just type in your new name. Double click on that folder and you'll see that now you're in C:\OblivionDownloads (or whatever name you chose). Click the new folder button again and create your MidasMagic folder. Double click it and then click the save button.

 

The next time you download a mod from Nexus you'll only need to click the up one level button until you're in C:\OblivionDownloads and then create a new folder.

 

Once you have the file saved navigate to that folder with Windows Explorer and doubleclick the .7z file (occasionally a download will be .zip or .rar but providing you haven't installed WinZip or WinRAR 7-Zip will handle all situations). The nice thing about 7-Zip as opposed to WinZip (not sure about WinRAR as I don't use it) is that by default it will offer to extract to the folder the archive is located. With WinZip you need to navigate to the right folder each time ... a pain in the butt.

 

Some mods will extract to a nicely laid out proper folder structure and others will have some version of a truncated folder structure. If you start off with some simpler mods, say a shiny new sword it will make it easier to get your head around where different types of files need to go.

 

If you followed the link and download the swords, you'll see when you extract the archive you'll have folders starting at 'Gizmodian - Real Silver Swords' inside your C:\OblivionDownloads\RealSilverSwords folder you created when you downloaded. This is a mod that is packaged in what I would call 'the correct' way. Inside Gizmodian - Real Silver Swords you'll find a Data folder and inside that there's a Meshes folder and Textures folder (with subfolders inside them Mondstein's Armory and Gizmodians Real Silver Swords). Note that capitalization doesn't matter in the folder names (Gizmodians Real Silver Swords is the same as gizmodians real silver swords). If you look at the lowest level of folders (the Gizmodians Real Silver Swords level) you'll see that inside the Textures one you have a couple of .dds files and inside the Meshes lowest level you have .nif files. If you're not seeing file names like 'archest02New02.nif' and only seeing 'archest02New02' you probably have 'Hide file extensions for known file types' turned on in your folder option ... no big deal until you are troubleshooting a problem mod down the road some time, just some background information.

 

If you click on the Data folder you'll see that it also contains one file, 'Gizmodian - Real Silver Swords.esp'. Not every mod will come with an .esp file, but most will (there are mods that just replace the vanilla game content, appropriately I refer to them as 'replacer mods'). So you see by examining the folder and file structure of this mod that .esp files go in the Data folder, mesh files have a .nif extension and go in a named subfolder of the Meshes folder, which will always be a subfolder directly below Data and ditto for the Textures (which have a .dds extension and go in a sub of Textures). If you run into a mod that just stuffs files into the root of Meshes or Textures I'd avoid it (i.e. not in a named subfolder off Meshes or Textures) ... not the mark of a good modder in my opinion.

 

The final piece to explain before we get to installing the sword mod is mods that come with .bsa files. In big complicated mods, that have lots of folders and subfolder often the mod author will opt to take all the texture and mesh and sound etc. resources and compress them using the same format as the vanilla game uses (look in your Data folder and you'll find files like 'Oblivion - Meshes.bsa and 'Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa'). The same as the vanilla bsa files, those mod added bsa files need to go in the Data folder as well.

 

So with this sword mod extracted into your C:\OblivionDownloads\RealSilverSwords folder you'll right mouse click on the 'Data' folder that is inside the C:\OblivionDownloads\RealSilverSwords\Gizmodian - Real Silver Swords folder and select 'Copy' from the right click menu. Then navigate to your game install folder (I generally use another Windows Explorer window, getting that one open and set to my game's 'Oblivion' folder). Right click on the Oblivion folder and select 'Paste' from the right click menu. The rule of thumb is, when copy and pasting folders you paste into one level higher than you copied. You will get a prompt about there already being a folder named Data, do you want to overwrite. Click 'Yes to all'. Windows will create the correct subfolders inside of your game's Data folder and as long as mod A doesn't have the same 'MyCoolSword.nif' as mod B, located in the same named folder as mod B (e.g meshes\MyCoolSword\MyCoolSword.nif for both mods) no files will be overwritten. Then it's just a matter of clicking on the 'Data Files' option in the game launcher, scrolling down to Gizmodian - Real Silver Swords.esp and clicking to put a black X next to it.

 

Sounds big and complicated, and I don't do bare bones 1, 2, 3 partial sentence explanations. Your question used full sentences, so I figured I'd give you my full meal deal.

[dtmwerks]

Thanks for the great reply! So no preference for doing it manually vs the OBMM method? It's just that the FAQ I read stated "When mods are not provided in OMOD format, they must be converted into OMOD format by the user"

 

Is that not true? If I do it manually the mod will still appear in my OBMM?

[Nephenee13]

Thanks for the great reply! So no preference for doing it manually vs the OBMM method? It's just that the FAQ I read stated "When mods are not provided in OMOD format, they must be converted into OMOD format by the user"

 

Is that not true? If I do it manually the mod will still appear in my OBMM?

 

I would suggest getting Wrye Bash and doing everything via BAIN packages, personally.

[dtmwerks]

Nvm I think I added the mods correctly. Turning them into OMOD things was kinda simple.

 

Anyone got any advice about that line 32 unexpected arguments thing? I THINK it has something to do with overwriting things between UOP and USIP, but I don't know for sure....

[Striker879]

Sorry for not replying earlier ... was a travel day for me.

 

I don't want to discount what Nephenee has suggested. The most robust way to install and uninstall mods is using Wrye Bash and BAIN installation. It will do everything you would wish for as an installer/uninstaller and then some. The downside is because it's such a versatile multitude of utilities rolled into one it can be considered by some a tough thing to learn.

 

The biggest shortcoming that OBMM and OMOD installation suffers from is a total lack of tracking what mod A overwrites when you install it, so it can't restore the preinstallation files when you uninstall mod A. Striker's patented extremely complicated manual install method (of which I've only shown you the absolute basics) overcomes all OBMM pitfalls, but admittedly doesn't do anything outside of what WB and BAIN can do without the complicated part (excluding learning to use it).

 

If a mod comes as a premade OMOD and installation script I'll use OBMM to install, providing it's a big complex mod with lots of options to chose from. If it says to create an OMOD using the download I'll use my patented method.

 

To help you weigh the merit of WB and BAIN vs manual install have a look through the Wrye Bash Pictorial Guide to get an idea of what it's like.

[dtmwerks]

Alright, since so many have suggested it, I'll give that a read and install it. I just can't wrap my head around why so many mods say use OBMM while others say use wyre bash when dling their mods. ><

 

edit: sigh, already a hiccup

 

"Requirements and Installation: Short version: just use the installer and install Wrye Bash to the Oblivion folder!

Remember! In Windows Vista and up, don't install Oblivion in the Program Files folder due to User Access Controls (UAC)."

 

So....am I screwed? I already installed it for windows 7. It's in C: -> program files (x86) -> steam -> steamapps -> common -> oblivion

 

I've used OBMM and UOP and USIP are running fine in there. Do I still need to move oblivion to somewhere else?

Edited May 30, 2012 by dtmwerks

[Striker879]

Not to worry ... all is not lost. Here's a link to Bben46's wiki article Oblivion reinstall procedure. Don't miss the link near the top of the page about moving your Steam install location, and the link about registry cleaning. Once your game is installed outside of Program Files (and out from under UAC's clutches) you'll be off on the right foot. While it is possible that you may have luck getting some mods to run while still in Program Files, now is the time to get onto firm ground. Down the road you've a good chance of running into difficulties, and install location is one of the checks that a troubleshooter is going to ask. By installing to C:\Games\... you've eliminated one source of problems, which will allow troubleshooting to find the real root of whatever the problem may be. Consider it a minor blip now that will bear fruit in the future.

 

You'll find some mods claiming OBMM is the way to go vs other's that insist on WB depending in part on which method the mod author is most comfortable and familiar with. Without doubt WB and BAIN installation is the robust solution, but as I said at the price of a steeper learning curve. There are mods (generally in the 'major overhaul' category) that will not work without the use of WB and something called a 'bashed patch'. When more than one mod tries to change the same thing in the game whichever is loaded in your load order last will prevail (and sometimes whichever is installed last). There are situations that anything a manual installer like me can do will not overcome. The only solution is a bashed patch.

 

A bashed patch is 'a mod' which is created using options in WB (something called bashed tags) to create a personalized mash-up of those over lapping pieces from various mods. Using the bashed tags you decide which mod's changes win in the conflicts irrespective of load order (and if you are also using BAIN irrespective of install order).

 

I'd suggest getting the game and Steam out of Program Files and then go through the tutorial dungeon. Just before you exit the sewers (at the part where you can see the sewer exit in the distance make a save using the Esc menu save option and save in a new slot. Go through the character finalization menu and exit the sewers. Make another save in a new slot. The first save will allow you to create a new character without needing to go through the whole tutorial in the future, and the second will come in handy for testing mods.

 

Next get your game settings to your liking (view distance sliders, shadow quality etc. Here's a link to Koroush Ghazi's Oblivion Tewak Guide that may come in handy. Next go to the Market District of the Imperial City (preferable around mid day when it's busy) and see how the game is handling the strain at your chosen settings. Now you have a frame of reference of how the vanilla game runs on your machine. Now you can start adding mods, starting with the unofficial patches if you choose.

 

A note on saving ... the quicksave function in the game is a known causer of save file corruption. Use Save off the Esc menu or named saves using the console command 'save <Your save name>' (without the quote marks and brackets).

[dtmwerks]

Ok I've gotta tackle all this one thing at a time. While making a backup, it says it won't backup my save games, so since I'm moving all of steam, I backuped skyrim too, but there were no save games I could find. Am I right to assume that the new cloud feature makes it my save games safe?

 

Also, you talk about registry cleaning as does the wiki. But like you said, there's a separate link for moving steam. I can just move steam from the insructions given and not have to do all that other stuff right?

 

I should also note I have no game saves on oblivion. All my game saves or on the xbox lol. Oblivion on my pc is pretty virginy.

 

edit: hmmm i find it counterproductive that in the instructions to move steam to another folder, it tells me to backup my games in a folder called "backups". Then it tells me to delete, EVERYTHING except steamapps and steam.exe. Something that is very nervewracking to do. Although I did move the backups to another folder anyway

 

edit2: btw, I won't be able to say this enough, ty for all the help so far and any future help! You're awesome! No need to apologize about not replying earlier either, I am in your debt!

Edited May 31, 2012 by dtmwerks

[Striker879]

The backup folder you'd create for your Steam saves would be outside of the current Steam folder structure altogether, something like C:\Games\MyBackups\Skyrim (and a separate subfolder for each Steam game you have that has saves to backup). Being the type of person I am I'd also have a little text file in each folder with any notes to myself I thought valuable, stuff like folder structure where each game's saves were located, mods I didn't intend to re-install after moving, whatever you'd find good to not forget. If you make it a subfolder off C:\Games you will already have the C:\Games folder for moving Steam and Oblivion to later, and you'll keep your game related stuff in one spot. I don't have Skyrim myself, but in Oblivion save games are not in the game folders at all ... they're found in 'Users\[username]\Documents\My Games\Oblivion' for Vista and Win 7. I'd expect something similar for Skyrim (have a look for 'Users\[username]\Documents\My Games\Skyrim')

 

On the registry cleaning step, if you don't do it there's a good chance your re-install attempt after getting Steam moved could run into trouble because the installer finds registry entries from the older install and gets confused. Sometimes a bit of extra effort now proves to be a timesaver later (like the add one mod at a time and test in between advice ... take a look through these threads at how many have installed a big whack of mods and then can't get the game to run ... when asked what did you install since the game last ran all they can say is "All of them" and all we can advise is often "Uninstall all of them and start over one at a time, then call us when you get stuck").

 

I don't use Steam so I can't speak from experience but the order I'd do it is get your saves and any mods backed up, uninstall Oblivion from your current Steam location, run CCleaner for just the Oblivion registry entries and then follow the Steam instructions for moving Steam. If I recall correctly they claim you can just move the Steam folder and most of your Steam games will migrate correctly when you start Steam from the new location. After confirming that all the other games made the move OK then re-install Oblivion in the new location.

 

I know that all this seems a royal pain in the butt. Thing is there are mods you'll likely want down the road for Oblivion that will require things like Oblivion Script Extender (OBSE) or Wrye Bash, and getting those to work in Program Files can be problematic. Some people seem to have no problems, perhaps because they've turned off UAC (not something I recommend). Other's are posting problems on here for weeks with each new mod they want to try. The same as mods need a common starting point to work correctly (Oblivion version 1.2.0416), troubleshooting mod problems is much easier the more variables you wrestle into a common line beforehand.