Real life inspirations for the Elder Scrolls

[RighthandofSithis]

G'day guys.

 

While it's obvious that most of the human races have real life inspirations (Eg, Imperials-Rome, Nords-Viking, etc). However I don;t know about the inspiration for some of the Elven races (that is, if they have a real lie inspiration at all).

 

Its been put forward that the Dunmer have a Arabic/Babylonian inspiration. From playing Morrowind, that seems like a logical conclusion.

 

Until recently, I've had a hard time establishing what the Altmer would be (if they even had an inspiration). However, in some recent in-game events, such as the Great War, the Thalmor had established a strong nation to the south of the Empire and in their invasion saw the complete sacking of the Imperial City. This is starting to give me the feeling that the Altmer have recently been given a loose Vandalic spin. However, I don't think this is a permanent inspiration, as the Vandal were a Germanic tribe (that migrated south), and such tribes were embodied in the Nords (predominantly the Vikings).

 

I think the Bosmer may just be stereotyped elves, like from Lord of the Rings.

 

And I think the Argonians and Khajiit are completely original, but I can't be sure.

[landy8]

Well, it seems to me that Redguards are more like Arabic. As for the Dunmer... let all those Ald- and Tel- names not distract you. They are Dunmeris words actually (Old- and Tower-). Many nations have something like that (all that -ford and -bridge in England, Chateau_- in France, -burg in Germany etc.) Dunmer architecture differs from House to House. Try to find some real parallels to House Telvanni's buildings, for example! And Mournhold looks more like some oriental city. So I think Dunmer are a little too complex to compare them to any single race or nation in real.

 

As for the Altmer... Well, not Altmer, but Thalmor! You may recall the XXth century history. There was one faction in real that arose after a great war that left their country devastated... and they also established control in their own country (oppressing or eliminating any opposition)... and they also began a conquest by ocuupying their neighbours one by one... and they also claimed themselves a master race... Enough?

Added: Oh, and their ideology control service also had black uniform. :wink:

 

 

In real that service was called Schutzstaffel. You can wiki it.

 

Edited May 31, 2012 by landy8

[robanybody2000]

IMO the resemblance with nationalities are as followed:

 

Imperials - Romans

 

Nord - Vikings

 

Dunmer - Polish

 

Altmer - 2'nd WW Germans

 

Khajiit - Egyptians

 

Red Guards - Turks

 

Bretons - the name says it all

 

Argonians - Moroccans

[RighthandofSithis]

Well, it seems to me that Redguards are more like Arabic. As for the Dunmer... let all those Ald- and Tel- names not distract you. They are Dunmeris words actually (Old- and Tower-). Many nations have something like that (all that -ford and -bridge in England, Chateau_- in France, -burg in Germany etc.) Dunmer architecture differs from House to House. Try to find some real parallels to House Telvanni's buildings, for example! And Mournhold looks more like some oriental city. So I think Dunmer are a little too complex to compare them to any single race or nation in real.

 

As for the Altmer... Well, not Altmer, but Thalmor! You may recall the XXth century history. There was one faction in real that arose after a great war that left their country devastated... and they also established control in their own country (oppressing or eliminating any opposition)... and they also began a conquest by ocuupying their neighbours one by one... and they also claimed themselves a master race... Enough?

Added: Oh, and their ideology control service also had black uniform. :wink:

 

 

In real that service was called Schutzstaffel. You can wiki it.

 

 

Yes, I know there are political differences between the Thalmor and the Altmer in general.

 

And again yes, many people associate the Nazis and the Thalmor. indeed even the name 'Great War' is a reference to the First World War (the Thalmor refer to the Great War as the 'First war against the empire'). I'm more asking what ethnicity inspired the Altmer, and given the Vandal's tendency to raid, and ultimately destroy, the Western Roman Empire, I had drawn the conclusion that the Altmer as a race may have recently been given some Vandalic spin.

 

Also, when you say the SS inspired the Thalmor, I'd say the SS, or even the SA, inspired the Justiciars, not the Thalmor. The Thalmor, as a party, would have been inspired by the NSDAP.

 

When you say the Redguards are Arabic, remember that the Arabs were (and still are) more diverse than just one tribe. I believe that the Redguards are inspired by the Moors, who themselves aren't just one tribe. I justify this, as the Redguards and Moors are both invaders (the Redguards having conquered Hammerfell, and the Moors having conquered northwestern Africa and, before from reconquista, Iberia), and both are from the west. I still believe the Dunmer were inspired by an Arabic/Babylonian society. Perhaps even the Hewbrews (given both entered an Exodus).

[landy8]

And again yes, many people associate the Nazis and the Thalmor. indeed even the name 'Great War' is a reference to the First World War (the Thalmor refer to the Great War as the 'First war against the empire'). I'm more asking what ethnicity inspired the Altmer, and given the Vandal's tendency to raid, and ultimately destroy, the Western Roman Empire, I had drawn the conclusion that the Altmer as a race may have recently been given some Vandalic spin.

 

AD didn't want to destroy Cyrodiil, they wanted to conquer it. Well, retake actually. White-Gold Tower was built by Ayleids, so for Thalmor (declaring themselves the descendants of Aldmei) it was quite logical to retake it. I think they also had some plans about the Direnni Tower on the isle of Balfiera.

 

Also, when you say the SS inspired the Thalmor, I'd say the SS, or even the SA, inspired the Justiciars, not the Thalmor. The Thalmor, as a party, would have been inspired by the NSDAP.

 

That's what I was trying to say. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

When you say the Redguards are Arabic, remember that the Arabs were (and still are) more diverse than just one tribe. I believe that the Redguards are inspired by the Moors, who themselves aren't just one tribe. I justify this, as the Redguards and Moors are both invaders (the Redguards having conquered Hammerfell, and the Moors having conquered northwestern Africa and, before from reconquista, Iberia), and both are from the west. I still believe the Dunmer were inspired by an Arabic/Babylonian society. Perhaps even the Hewbrews (given both entered an Exodus).

 

:blink: (I mean I'm impressed!)

 

Well, I don't think the parallels are that straight. After all, Tamriel is a different world with a different history. And BTW if you're referring to Babylonian theocracy, Vvardelfell was ruled by a duke (not by Patriarch of the Tribunal Temple), Morrowind was ruled by a king (and king Helseth was leaning towards the Empire, not the Tribunal Temple). Only Almalexia tried to meddle in politics, other gods of the Tribunal preferred to stay out of it (and their Temple preferred to evade it too).

 

Added: I still think Redguards have some Arabic influence. I haven't quite got that single/multi tribal point. Who was who? As far as I know Arabs were (and are) not a single-tribed nation. So are Redguards. They are a race, not a tribe. In Daggerfall there was a number of countries even in the northen part of Hammerfell. And the Illiac Bay region was somewhat like Mediterranean. With European-like countries on one shore and Mid-Eastern ones on the other. And the capital of Sentinel (most powerful kingdom on Hammerfell's side of the bay) was much like that magnificient Arabic cities (as they appear in legends, at least).

 

Note that some fan of Daggerfall calculated the size of the Illiac Bay region. It was almost equal to the size of Europe. So I don't think it's correct to compare the races of Tamriel to some single real nations or tribes.

Edited May 31, 2012 by landy8

[RighthandofSithis]

And again yes, many people associate the Nazis and the Thalmor. indeed even the name 'Great War' is a reference to the First World War (the Thalmor refer to the Great War as the 'First war against the empire'). I'm more asking what ethnicity inspired the Altmer, and given the Vandal's tendency to raid, and ultimately destroy, the Western Roman Empire, I had drawn the conclusion that the Altmer as a race may have recently been given some Vandalic spin.

 

AD didn't want to destroy Cyrodiil, they wanted to conquer it. Well, retake actually. White-Gold Tower was built by Ayleids, so for Thalmor (declaring themselves the descendants of Aldmei) it was quite logical to retake it. I think they also had some plans about the Direnni Tower on the isle of Balfiera.

 

Also, when you say the SS inspired the Thalmor, I'd say the SS, or even the SA, inspired the Justiciars, not the Thalmor. The Thalmor, as a party, would have been inspired by the NSDAP.

 

That's what I was trying to say. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

When you say the Redguards are Arabic, remember that the Arabs were (and still are) more diverse than just one tribe. I believe that the Redguards are inspired by the Moors, who themselves aren't just one tribe. I justify this, as the Redguards and Moors are both invaders (the Redguards having conquered Hammerfell, and the Moors having conquered northwestern Africa and, before from reconquista, Iberia), and both are from the west. I still believe the Dunmer were inspired by an Arabic/Babylonian society. Perhaps even the Hewbrews (given both entered an Exodus).

 

:blink: (I mean I'm impressed!)

 

Well, I don't think the parallels are that straight. After all, Tamriel is a different world with a different history. And BTW if you're referring to Babylonian theocracy, Vvardelfell was ruled by a duke (not by Patriarch of the Tribunal Temple), Morrowind was ruled by a king (and king Helseth was leaning towards the Empire, not the Tribunal Temple). Only Almalexia tried to meddle in politics, other gods of the Tribunal preferred to stay out of it (and their Temple preferred to evade it too).

 

When I said the Vandals destroyed the Western Roman Empire, I meant, caused it to fall.

 

And yes, the parallels wouldn't be/ aren't very straightforward. However, I still believe the Redguards to be inspired by (if not intentionally, they share a lot in common with) the Moors.

 

And I wasn't referring to the Babylonian theocracy. However, now that you bring it up, until very recently in Morrowind's history, the Tribunal Gods did act as the rulers of Morrowind (Vivec having led two wars against Cyrodiil), albeit, ALMSIVI clearly had limited to no influence in Great House affairs, other than though House Indoril (which is why it was, until recently, Morrowind's most powerful house). Also, I've heard (but I'm not sure if its reliable or not) that Babylon was a very 'free thinking' society when it came to taboos. I'd say that the worship of Mephala embodies this.

[landy8]

And yes, the parallels wouldn't be/ aren't very straightforward. However, I still believe the Redguards to be inspired by (if not intentionally, they share a lot in common with) the Moors.

 

Sorry, I haven't got it at the beginning. You see, in my native language Moors are called differently. BTW, "Moors" is more geographical than ethnical term (a number of nations were called Moors), whlie Redguards are a race. Or, at least, they were originally.

 

And I wasn't referring to the Babylonian theocracy. However, now that you bring it up, until very recently in Morrowind's history, the Tribunal Gods did act as the rulers of Morrowind (Vivec having led two wars against Cyrodiil), albeit, ALMSIVI clearly had limited to no influence in Great House affairs, other than though House Indoril (which is why it was, until recently, Morrowind's most powerful house). Also, I've heard (but I'm not sure if its reliable or not) that Babylon was a very 'free thinking' society when it came to taboos. I'd say that the worship of Mephala embodies this.

 

But Tribunal were gods, not theocrats. Can you name any nation or state in real that was governed by a living god? Not his descendants, but a real immortal semi-omnipotent god?

 

Besides, I think Dunmer are a little too complicated to compare them to any single nation. Like any other Tamrielic race. Except Imperials, perhaps. BTW, in first two chapters there was no such race. The Imperial Province was said to be inhabited by all Tamriel's races thus having no race of its own. Imperials (Cyrodiils) appeared only in Morrowind, and since then they had a strong resemblance to Romans in real (with their -us, -es and the like name endings, roman-style armor etc.).

 

Just as Altmer. They too are more complicated than a simple version of XXth century Germans. They have millenia-old history, and they had no Bismarck in times of the Oblivion Crisis. :wink:

[landy8]

IMO the resemblance with nationalities are as followed:

 

Imperials - Romans

Agreed.

Nord - Vikings

Maybe.

Dunmer - Polish

WHY???

Altmer - 2'nd WW Germans

Not that simple.

Khajiit - Egyptians

Why? Because they live in the desert?

Red Guards - Turks

Well... maybe you have a point here.

Bretons - the name says it all

Not that simple.

Argonians - Moroccans

WHY???

[BS375]

In History many Armys donned Black Uniforms.

 

So The Nord cam from a other Land and Conqer the land from the Snowelven (Falmer now).

In this Time the Dunmer betrayed whem after they hide whem.

And the Tahlmor try to bring back the old time. Ayleiden = Thalmor?

 

But you can read all this in the books you can finde in the game.

And i dont think of bosmer, woodelven or highelven are near to Lotr.

Bosmer life in giant walking trees, and like meat. (dance in the fire??? name of the books that´s play in Valenwood )

[landy8]

So The Nord cam from a other Land and Conqer the land from the Snowelven (Falmer now).

 

Not immediately. There was a time of relative peace. And who broke it - well, it's another question.

 

In this Time the Dunmer betrayed whem after they hide whem.

 

Dwemer, actually, not Dunmer. Falmer asked Dwemer to use their underground cities to hide from the Nords. Falmer's enslavement by the Dwemer is a term to be discussed.

 

And the Tahlmor try to bring back the old time. Ayleiden = Thalmor?

 

More or less. At least, Thalmor think that Ayleid = Thalmor.