Who are the "Good Guys" in this war?

[Kraeten]

So let me get this straight...you're saying that after thirty years of the Empire being the Dominion's "backsteet boy" and apparently making zero headway in rebuilding their strength,

 

More speculation. For someone who professes to love cold hard facts, you don't seem to use them much.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Kraeten

[MacSuibhne]

So let me get this straight...you're saying that after thirty years of the Empire being the Dominion's "backsteet boy" and apparently making zero headway in rebuilding their strength,

 

More speculation. For someone who professes to love cold hard facts, you don't seem to use them much.

 

 

I'll be tolerant because it's obvious that English isn't your first language. What's needed here is a remedial reading class, I suspect.

 

Of course it's speculation...didn't you see the word "apparently"? Seemingly not...because you don't really read these posts for content do you? Just for out-of-context phrases you can spew about.

Edited June 22, 2012 by MacSuibhne

[Kraeten]

What's needed here is a remedial reading class, I suspect.

 

Oh, so we're sharing suspicions now are we? Well I'd share mine regarding you, but I'm afraid the act of doing so would likely earn me some kind of forum infraction.

 

Of course it's speculation...didn't you see the word "apparently"? Seemingly not...because you don't really read these posts for content do you? Just for out-of-context phrases you can spew about.

 

I would have quoted the entire thing, but I like to conserve space. Under that same intent I'll just cut straight to the point and say this, by relying on speculation you're on no greater footing in the debate than the man opposite you doing the equivalent. So, with that in mind, try to practice some humility from here on. Acting as if you're side is absolutely right doesn't help get any of your points across, and discourages thoughtful discourse.

[SplaTt333]

@MacSuibhne

 

No, I'm just saying that they stand much better chance with empire armies in their side, than withouth them + without soldiers lost in civil war.

 

I'm aware that common folk were always close minded and stupid, in fact they still are (look at all the populistic people who think something just because everyonene esle do instead of make evaluation with their own brain). But the leaders shouldn't and really Ulfric might put a bit more thought into his actions.

 

If you care, in my opinion the best course of action would be for Ulfric to talk to Hight King (whatever his name was), because as it was said by one of the Solitude character of the court: "if Ulfric would ask (skyrim king name) to declare independence, he would do it". If that didnt happen, then conspire with other Jarls to overthrow the King if needed.

Next contact other provinces influential powers, especially in Cyrodil and make attempt to overthrow current weak emperor (other options were also avialbe, ie. Dark Brotherhood services) one way or another.

Not a perfect plan but still way better than 'we will throw our poor armies onto entire world and see what happens'.

 

About America vs British empire if I'm correct (I'm not much of a history nerd) I think it's diffrent, because 1. distance was way greater 2. british had more problems than just this not so much valuable colonies (north america was considered way less usefull colony area in comparasion to India, Africa, Indonesia and South America 3. british empire was concerned more into pulling resources and becoming rich within the original Isles (main reason they easily abandoned most of their colonies years later) than just ruling the world for it;s own sake.

In short: it's really bad comparasion. Reference to Hitler is way more accurate.

 

 

@RighthandofSithis

I agree, skyrim is rought (not considering dragons because rebelion occured before their arrival). But Thalmor has one huge strenght which is magic and Skyrim lacks in it a lot.

 

You can't really compare Skyrim/Hammerfell power to USSR/Alliance(mainly America), but Dominion/Third Reich is good power comparasion. More accurate would be France+England vs Germany which as we know failed horribly (before Hitler attacked they also believed they can win against him).

 

 

/offtopic

Abour USSR/Russia I'm not saying that 'West' could easily conquer it. At the period of WW2 and after it Soviets actually believed they can easily conquer all europe, in which eastern/southern//northen europe very easily, and western moderately easily and they were much right as none of the countries was able to defend effectively against the Red Army and they was too divided to ever support eachother.

Only reason the Stalin didn't attacked europe was how powerfull America has grown during the war (it has been said that Japan awaken colossus), especially with their power show-off with nuclear weapons. I bet this scared the crap out of him.

But now for example if Russia would attempt to conquer entire EU (ofc if it would stand together as it's supposed to) they wouldn't be able, even without US involved.

Compare the Population (500 mln vs 150 mln) and economics (market value 15,8 vs 2,8 trillion).

Anyway continuing the topic I think as soon as Russia get real democracy it will soon become long term ally with the West against growing power of China, India and uniting Middle-East.

 

 

wow, this was long. Please guys if you wish to discuss futher (which is fun actually) let's make shorter posts :D

[fraquar]

Hammerfell is not independent because it is so strong, but because Thalmor is obviously focusing on Elsweyr and fueling the fire in Skyrim to futher weaken Empire and is not striking upon Hammerfell. Also arrival of the dragons has forced them to hold their horses a bit.

 

I don't know about your knoweagle of warfare but it seems rather thin. How could they keep fighting, when they was in defense at every front, lost most important economic/political/strategic center? They didn't had any army assembled that could strike back and didn't had the political influence to force provinces into joining the war with all they had nor did they had economical support needed to continue a war (Elsweyr, Hammerfell lost, most of Cyrodil conquered, Morrowind destoyed, Black March seceded, this leaves only High Rock economically unafected).

 

Sounds an awful lot like the Continental Army in the early stages of the American Revolution doesn't it? So you are suggesting that Washington should have just surrendered his Continental Army (which was anything but an army) because it was the dead of winter, they under-equipped, poorly trained, were on the run, hadn't won a single engagement against the best trained army in the world at the time?

 

Are you telling me the Empire situation was that dire?

Edited June 23, 2012 by fraquar

[SplaTt333]

@fraquar

Well as above - Washington faced only armies that were dedicated to north america colonies. He didn't have to face any major British forces, that were mainly in europe and many of them at other colonies. British empire didn't cosidered these colonies valuable enought to send there enormous forces they had and thus gave it up after their already residing forces couldn't win. So it's bad comparasion.

Imagine that there is no Atlantic ocean and British (as Thalmor) can send all their forces as one army to conquer without great costs or time required - now this comaprasion is good. Also, I believe British armies didn't had powerfull mages.

Edited June 23, 2012 by SplaTt333

[fraquar]

Wasn't making a comparison, was making the point that if you truly believe in the cause you are fighting for, you keep fighting even if the odds look long.

 

The Empire simply wasn't committed to the cause, and scores died needlessly because of it and they lost territories that felt betrayed because of it. They have only themselves to blame.

Edited June 23, 2012 by fraquar

[SplaTt333]

Yeah, so it's better to commit to the cause as you said and make lots of people loose their life for this cause with low chance of success than to save what you can and strike back when you grow strong enought. Really great idea, read-up on history how stories like this ended.

[fraquar]

No, since they obviously weren't committed to finish what they started they should have just accepted the original treaty - and saved countless lives WASTED to get the exact same result.

 

I'm not advocating for one second that if they have no backbone to keep fighting - that would be an even bigger waste of life. Don't start something you have no intention of finishing - because all it becomes is one complete and utter waste of time, lives and resources.

[SplaTt333]

Ahh I forgot they made the offer before the war too, my bad. But I still can understand the empire - they were unchallanged force for centuries and overestimated their power while underesimated Thalmor. Once they realised their horrible mistake they wanted to make up for it and chose the best option aviable.