Who are the "Good Guys" in this war?

[Ahtilah]

I don't think anyone has brought up this point yet. If we are to assume we want to fight for the best interests of 'Skyrim' why choose the imperials? Who's seat of government is not in Skyrim, but over in Cyrodill(I hope I spelled that right)?

The point is, even if an attack were to occur on Skyrim, it won't be until everyone else is wiped out. They are the furthest lands away from Summerset Isle, and also the 'coldest'. Does the failed attempts on Russia from two key people ring a bell? Hitler and Napoleon, massed armies and sent it into Russia, only to watch their troops die to the cold harsh winters. Who best to defend these lands then the natives? They know the land, and are more then likely going to bleed more for their land, but the Empire? It's not their land, why would they bleed for it first? (If we are to assume Skyrim is attacked first, again I doubt that) Skyrim will have plenty of time to rebuild, I would think. But it begs the question, what will they do after their own Civil War has ended for either side?

 

Stormcloak win: Most likely will find them aiding Hammerfell, why? Because the AD are attacking them, and their nation shows that they can hold their own. A strong ally against the AD. After that, build up forces to prepare for the blood bath that the AD will bring after they bolster up their forces.

 

Imperial win: Probably work on their own infrastructure. Nothing will get done, politics will work down the Empire even further, and they will lose more and more allies. Tidas Mede II has proved one thing, Cyrodill is his only concern, Hammerfell, an old Empire state is now fending off against the AD and seceded from the Empire. What do you think would happen to Skyrim if they were attacked before Cyrodill, they'll pull out and leave them to die. Fall back to Cyrodill borders. Assuming Tidas Mede II was not killed in your story, of course. Otherwise, it will be Elder Council fighting over the seat of power.

 

In the end, and my opinion. In this case, a divided may be a better turn out, instead of a united.

[StormHammer81]

Here you are my dear:

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=107&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=634cxkpdTDfw0M:&imgrefurl=http://caiomeide.tumblr.com/post/18852327735/dwemeronthemind-half-nord-dovahkiin-and-they&docid=LoYqMSR3X51-XM&imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/EXbas.png&w=400&h=289&ei=mQjpT52pEI-c8QS6qLjeDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1075&vpy=474&dur=1387&hovh=191&hovw=264&tx=162&ty=86&sig=102910195303315026877&page=3&tbnh=130&tbnw=180&ndsp=57&ved=1t:429,r:35,s:107,i:199

 

Would you like fries with that? :D

 

Hey, at least you can worship Talos openly now...

 

*Evil, Demonic, really sinister laugh* aaaAAAHHH-HAH-HAH ... HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Like Jar-Jar did in that one RobotChicken episode on you tube where the Emperor is falling down in the Death Star...

 

You know what? I would like some fries... and I probably better go get them before My McDonald's gets washed away in this mini-hurricane :)

Edited June 26, 2012 by bigmagy1981

[Ahtilah]

Here you are my dear:

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=107&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1920&bih=911&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=634cxkpdTDfw0M:&imgrefurl=http://caiomeide.tumblr.com/post/18852327735/dwemeronthemind-half-nord-dovahkiin-and-they&docid=LoYqMSR3X51-XM&imgurl=http://i.imgur.com/EXbas.png&w=400&h=289&ei=mQjpT52pEI-c8QS6qLjeDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1075&vpy=474&dur=1387&hovh=191&hovw=264&tx=162&ty=86&sig=102910195303315026877&page=3&tbnh=130&tbnw=180&ndsp=57&ved=1t:429,r:35,s:107,i:199

 

Would you like fries with that? :D

 

Hey, at least you can worship Talos openly now...

 

*Evil, Demonic, really sinister laugh* aaaAAAHHH-HAH-HAH ... HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Like Jar-Jar did in that one RobotChicken episode on you tube where the Emperor is falling down in the Death Star...

 

You know what? I would like some fries... and I probably better go get them before My McDonald's gets washed away in this mini-hurricane :)

So what you posted, is a scenario of what will happen if the civil war continues in either case? Cause personally, I see a worse outcome with going with the Empire then I would with Ulfric. Going with the Empire would include Skyrim as a crossed out in that picture. Along with everything else.

[StormHammer81]

If the Thalmor could take the Empire, then why the ruse with the Justicars and Ulfric and the Embassy and all the sideshow Bob crap?

 

I don't think the Thalmor are capable of bringing down the Empire. Although to square with you, if we don't get rid of TM2 the future looks bleak either way. IF the Empire was to get a new Emperor or Empress, such as the Dragonborn, who was a strong, faithful leader then I'd say the Thalmor are up against a brick wall. Now, if Ulfric gets his way, well then, the game is different. Like you said, we don't know what might happen either way, although I know, the Empire of Talos even in it's current state can take the Thalmor and that somethings really shifty about ol slue foot. That's a lot of lives to gambling be on. I'm going with the house on this one. Annnd the Thalmor also know that if they push the Empire too hard, Hammerfell and Empire may put aside their differences and side with each other if for no other reason than survival. Which is infinitely more likely with TM2 out of the way.

Edited June 26, 2012 by bigmagy1981

[Ahtilah]

If the Thalmor could take the Empire, then why the ruse with the Justicars and Ulfric and the Embassy and all the sideshow Bob crap?

 

I don't think the Thalmor are capable of bringing down the Empire. Although to square with you, if we don't get rid of TM2 the future looks bleak either way. IF the Empire was to get a new Emperor or Empress, such as the Dragonborn, who was a strong, faithful leader then I'd say the Thalmor are up against a brick wall. Now, if Ulfric gets his way, well then, the game is different. Like you said, we don't know what might happen either way, although I know, the Empire of Talos even in it's current state can take the Thalmor and that somethings really shifty about ol slue foot. That's a lot of lives to gambling be on. I'm going with the house on this one. Annnd the Thalmor also know that if they push the Empire too hard, Hammerfell and Empire may put aside their differences and side with each other if for no other reason than survival. Which is infinitely more likely with TM2 out of the way.

 

I never said the Thalmor could take down the Empire, atleast not right off the bat. It will take a while. But for the most part, they are already taking care of themselves. What other off the scene is going on with the empire other then just Skyrim? For one, you got nobles wanting an assassination on Tidas Mede II. Which means, they got their own internal problems at this very moment back in Cyrodiil. What I am saying, the Thalmor can sit back and relax while the Empire takes care of itself. And then deliver the finishing blow after all the dust has settled.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Ahtilah

[dragonslayer2k12]

Would be nice to marry the player character to the queen in the blue palace she seems to like the player character a lot:-) But as we have seen in oblivion the player character is just a vehicle to power for some other character at the end of the story. I too would rather have the nords go independent but the writers for this game threw in the racist stuff and it pisses me off. Why would a people that seem to care so much for honor and tradition have racist problems? The writers could have left out the racist stuff and they could have wrapped up the story with a unified goal or the player could choose at the end to participate in a duel for one side or the other to decide who runs skyrim instead of sacking the whole country, tearing up towns and making hot lookin queens boohoo on the throne about ulfric winning. Maybe the player could have also challenged ulfric to a duel if they played as a nord and win independence for skyrim while putting that other nord guy on the throne as jarl of windhelm that is there when ulfric dies?

 

I don't like the imperials, I don't care for them ever since oblivion and those jerk guards I ended up fighting them a lot for talking trash lol. I don't like ulfric because he is a power hungry dictator more so than a nord that cares for skyrim. The other races in skyrim can stay as long as they want or need to but some parts of skyrim are for the nords. Nords come from skyrim and it would be lame to see all kinds of other races just everywhere overnight. So the other races would get help restoring old abandoned towns and forts etc as a place for them to grow and to help cut down on bandit hideouts so there is some positive things for other races to do that nords can be happy with. See the writers could have thought up this stuff but it would seem less dramatic but not if it was an end of game goal or secondary main quest series of goals for the player. They could be drawn out quests like barenziah jewels so there is more to do after finishing the main quest. I really hated watching balgruff get his butt kicked and find out his kids go missing later on if ulfric wins. They could have just left whiterun out of it until later if the player killed ulfric but decided that skyrim should be independent and then balgruff would agree because he might have more respect for the player than he had for ulfric?

[Ahtilah]

I too would rather have the nords go independent but the writers for this game threw in the racist stuff and it pisses me off.

 

You seem to be stuck with the trend of many people about the Stromcloaks. The only racism I see, is the two nords walking around the streets of WIndhelm(And last I checked, they don't represent the Stromcloaks or Ulfric). And as much as people seem to blame Ulfric for some racism, I don't see it. Just because Argonians are not allowed within the walls, which are filled to the brim with people as it is already. Or how he put the Dark Elves to the Gray Quarter? They are the ones who turned the Gray Quarter into what it is today. So that one is self inflicted. And not all the Dark Elves are living in that area, their is also the Dark Elf who lives with the Cruel Sea family and is better off then most Dark Elves. No one is racist towards the High Elf in the market place, but she has earned their respect by showing she isn't worthless. A nord will talk down anyone who isn't a hard worker, is what it comes down to. Until you prove your worth, you might as well be trash. Even other Nords get the same treatment if they don't prove their worth. Like Nord Bards are prime examples of this same treatment.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Ahtilah

[NAPALM13092]

Just to clarify I do not think either side is the 'good guys'. Both seem to be different shades of grey with a fair amount of douchebaggery under their respective belts. That being said I think going with the Empire is the logical choice even if my gut wants to be this William Wallace freedom fighter. The only point I think the Stormcloaks can really argue is the right to free religion. Other than that siding with the Stormcloaks weakens the Empire which unintentionally aids the Thalmor (Perhaps even intentionally as evidence in game shows the Thalmor want the Stormcloaks to cripple the Empire and released Ulfric when they had him captive during the war.) and it also puts into motion a racist being High King of Skyrim (Even if the stories about the Reach and Ulfric are made up as Imperial propaganda all you have to do is look at the way Dunmer and treated in Windhelm or talk to some of the pro-Stormcloak Jarls to see they are a bunch of ignorant barbarians.). I disagree with many things the Imperials have done as of late (Trying to kill me being one.) but I would rather see the Empire remain strong and united for the coming 2nd war with the Dominion and while Elisif is young, inexperienced, and a Imperial puppet to a degree, doing quest in Solitude has shown her to still be a good person with general concern for her people. Some will argue that Hammerfell held off the Thalmor on its own, (Which it did.) but how long will that last? The Dominion is a well oiled economic and military juggernaut. "Divide and Conquer" the Thalmor would rather gobble up alienated and bickering nations and city states then try to fight a unified Empire. Suppose over the decades Hammerfell and Skyrim pull the money and resources out of their ass to continue to hold of the Dominion, we will still see more of Tamriel fall to them and their influence grow. There is no perfect option but going with those bastard Imperials seems to be the better choice in the long run to stick it to the Thalmor and create peace and stability for all races.

[Ahtilah]

Just to clarify I do not think either side is the 'good guys'. Both seem to be different shades of grey with a fair amount of douchebaggery under their respective belts. That being said I think going with the Empire is the logical choice even if my gut wants to be this William Wallace freedom fighter. The only point I think the Stormcloaks can really argue is the right to free religion. Other than that siding with the Stormcloaks weakens the Empire which unintentionally aids the Thalmor (Perhaps even intentionally as evidence in game shows the Thalmor want the Stormcloaks to cripple the Empire and released Ulfric when they had him captive during the war.) and it also puts into motion a racist being High King of Skyrim (Even if the stories about the Reach and Ulfric are made up as Imperial propaganda all you have to do is look at the way Dunmer and treated in Windhelm or talk to some of the pro-Stormcloak Jarls to see they are a bunch of ignorant barbarians.). I disagree with many things the Imperials have done as of late (Trying to kill me being one.) but I would rather see the Empire remain strong and united for the coming 2nd war with the Dominion and while Elisif is young, inexperienced, and a Imperial puppet to a degree, doing quest in Solitude has shown her to still be a good person with general concern for her people. Some will argue that Hammerfell held off the Thalmor on its own, (Which it did.) but how long will that last? The Dominion is a well oiled economic and military juggernaut. "Divide and Conquer" the Thalmor would rather gobble up alienated and bickering nations and city states then try to fight a unified Empire. Suppose over the decades Hammerfell and Skyrim pull the money and resources out of their ass to continue to hold of the Dominion, we will still see more of Tamriel fall to them and their influence grow. There is no perfect option but going with those bastard Imperials seems to be the better choice in the long run to stick it to the Thalmor and create peace and stability for all races.

 

 

You seem to think this 'united' Empire is strong. They pulled out of Hammerfell, which is still under fire and used to be one of their own states. What is going to stop them from pulling out of Skyrim, if Skyrim were to be attacked first?(Unlikely for Skyrim to be attacked first, but possible). With your logic, doesn't that mean the Empire needs Hammerfell and they shouldn't of pulled out? But they have, and Hammerfell seceded from the Empire for it. Also, we cannot predict the actions of how the Empire will react at all, we as Skyrim folk, don't even really know this Emperor or his family except that they by force took over Cyrodiil. Even if we were to assassinate him(Dark Brotherhood questline) what then? Who is the successor? Is the successor better or worse? With choosing Ulfric, you have somewhat control and knowledge of who you are choosing. And it is a influential leader, not a racist as you have claimed, which is false. Helping his own is first priority, always. it is how it is with -all- leaders. Or how it should be, anyway. These Dark Elves that he didn't help? Not his people, refuges of Morrowind, not his own. And this mistaken racism towards elves, not entirely true. He may be harder on an elf player character, but not racist. He absolutely doesn't like the AD, which a lot of AD are High Elves. So understandable there, but their is the High Elf in the Market place who mentions why she isn't being mistreated, go and see what she says. She'll tell you that she proved she is useful, that is what the bad treatment is about.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Ahtilah

[Kraeten]

You seem to think this 'united' Empire is strong. They pulled out of Hammerfell, which is still under fire and used to be one of their own states. What is going to stop them from pulling out of Skyrim, if Skyrim were to be attacked first?

 

 

Self preservation, for starters? Skyrim is the only remaining link Cyrodiil has to High Rock.