Wow, and you thought Fat, slutty, or Ugly had harsh words...

[brokenergy]

*snip*

 

At this point I think we should just quit while we are still ahead before it becomes circular reasoning, we aren't on the same page and if we spend twelve pages discussing this we still end up on the same argument. hector just likes to call me out because apprently I bend my knee to EA. I just wish that this person just explores into fake body images in video games in general and not just in women.

[hector530]

I just wish that this person just explores into fake body images in video games in general and not just in women.

 

all ive seen from her points to no. even her latest update on kickstarter is very much her vs trolls(boys). as i read the comments on the kickstarter people really do think they are gonna get some great documentary. i just think to myself you poor poor bastards. they wont. good documentary make you think not tell you what to think. use and list their sources, have experts, debate, shows both sides of the story and try to get the person/organization/corporation who you are targeting some way to reply i.e. email, letter, phones calls to your accusations. shes never does this! at best she quotes a book or a blog, but she never even says if she tried to contact them. this is why she never uses words like documentary, journalism or reporting. she is making a video series about her biased opinionated views on female roles in gaming... and taking 145,000 dollars for it.

 

dont expect much. i wont be surprised if its only her on the video series and no one else like on her other videos.

[Vagrant0]

The thing is that there is a group of people who are very receptive to this sort of one-sided information, and will support just about anything that helps establish views of inequality, or rather equality that they don't like. Some don't even care for equality, they want dominance and revenge. And stuff like this, showing how women are pictured as "inferior" only helps fuel their causes.

[eltucu]

I would suggest anyone who pulls the 'but men are portrayed unrealistically too' angle to have a look at this video

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games

 

Say all you might, how often do you see a male character being posed simply for the sex appeal? How often do you see a female character being posed to convey anything other than sex appeal?

I find that Moviebob is kinda a douche for some stuff but that video was pretty much spot on.

 

Kojima didnt designed Solid Snake for the ladies (plus he is no lady to begin with) and yet you can't deny that Eva was totally designed for the male players of MGS.

[eodx9000]

And yet, nobody cares to notice what sort of messages seeing male characters in games is presenting. How can a young male in this society live up to the model of a gun-toting anti-hero with ripping biceps, or a great warrior who travels long distances and wins impossible fights against evil. What message is it sending women who are expecting to meet this suave man of mystery, but only see the guy that works the drive-thru or spends hours trying to sell insurance over the phone. What we need are games where the roles that characters play are realistically attainable. Less heroic... more country bumpkin. Less handsome... more like they fell from the ugly tree, hit every branch, and decided to climb back up to try the other side. You know... Like how these people are in real life.

 

Lowered expectations for everyone.

 

That's what made GTA4 such a great game. You played the role of someone who's face had been bitchsmacked by genetics, and spent most of your time denigrating yourself in the services of just about every a**hole that crossed your path.

 

 

Oh wait... being at the bottom of the food chain, not getting the girl, not overcoming some unusual circumstances, or even having to occasionally see yourself as someone grotesquely unattractive doesn't usually lead to an enjoyable gaming experience. That's why most stories are written with epic situations, simplified relationships, and feature characters who either look buff or buxom... Because anything else usually is a pain to play, or just ends up being too drama heavy for the average 13-28 year old male to give a s***.

 

While there is the issue of most of these games being made in parts of the world where there are long standing sexual standards as part of the core cultural framework, most of these areas couldn't care less about what a few Americans (or even Europeans) think. They make games with busty heroines or play to tropes because sex sells, and the average programmer isn't known to have much real contact with women, let alone have the time or patience to build/maintain a relationship. Nevermind that most women in the world wouldn't want much to do with someone who works 18+ hour days, maintains a minimum level of hygiene, and doesn't earn very much for the effort. Even if someone knows that they're a 2 or a 3, they will still try to hook up with that 6 or 7 and have fantasies about that 8 or 9... Regardless of gender.

 

The misogynist epidemic probably has a greater tie to the amount of stupid people with an access to share every single thought they have, combined with their own pathetic social skills and changing social dynamics that no longer place men as a prestige class. Male roles are eroding quickly, leaving either ones which are unattainable by most, or ones that very few would want to deal with. I have even seen women joking a number of times that if women ruled the wold, the only suitable place for men would be doing those hard, disgusting jobs, castrated servants, or the lucky few being milked by sperm banks.

 

Equality is good, but in the process you lose those firm definitions of identity that are necessary for people to find their place in the world. The sexual division of labor didn't occur as an accident, or because of some man deciding to state his importance and make it law. It happened as a product of natural sexual cycles and sex-based development in the brain. The ideal is to have enough freedom for people to have some say in their life, but still have clearly defined roles, both socially and sexually.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

There's nothing wrong with women being portrayed in a video game based on an identity the author wants to portray her as, whether to appeal sexually or not. There's also nothing wrong with you refusing to buy something over that, but there is a problem when you demand that anyone else do the same because of your perception.

 

It's really just like nudity in a video game and real life - the only people that have a problem with it are those that believe that just because they cannot view a naked body as anything other than sexual that no one else can view a naked body as something non-sexual. But in the case of video games, it's even more ridiculous as video games are first and foremost about the entertainment value.

 

Ultimately, if you really want to see games catering to YOUR perception of how a female should be, then by all means - go for it and develop your own games - and I won't lie, since I am an adult I'm probably going to refuse to support it just like I don't support games that try to take out the violence when it comes to fighting and war. Hell, if you want to make men into sex toys - go for it - that doesn't mean I'll support you or care for your product either.

 

P.S. I also don't support equality, not when it means forcing other people to accept your perception on what 'equality' is or isn't. If there can be equality, it either must be voluntary or die.

 

Edit: so where is the image in the OP's link? I didn't see one. :(

Edited July 2, 2012 by eodx9000

[Ihoe]

And yet, nobody cares to notice what sort of messages seeing male characters in games is presenting. How can a young male in this society live up to the model of a gun-toting anti-hero with ripping biceps, or a great warrior who travels long distances and wins impossible fights against evil. What message is it sending women who are expecting to meet this suave man of mystery, but only see the guy that works the drive-thru or spends hours trying to sell insurance over the phone. What we need are games where the roles that characters play are realistically attainable. Less heroic... more country bumpkin. Less handsome... more like they fell from the ugly tree, hit every branch, and decided to climb back up to try the other side. You know... Like how these people are in real life.

 

Lowered expectations for everyone.

 

That's what made GTA4 such a great game. You played the role of someone who's face had been bitchsmacked by genetics, and spent most of your time denigrating yourself in the services of just about every a**hole that crossed your path.

 

 

Oh wait... being at the bottom of the food chain, not getting the girl, not overcoming some unusual circumstances, or even having to occasionally see yourself as someone grotesquely unattractive doesn't usually lead to an enjoyable gaming experience. That's why most stories are written with epic situations, simplified relationships, and feature characters who either look buff or buxom... Because anything else usually is a pain to play, or just ends up being too drama heavy for the average 13-28 year old male to give a s***.

 

While there is the issue of most of these games being made in parts of the world where there are long standing sexual standards as part of the core cultural framework, most of these areas couldn't care less about what a few Americans (or even Europeans) think. They make games with busty heroines or play to tropes because sex sells, and the average programmer isn't known to have much real contact with women, let alone have the time or patience to build/maintain a relationship. Nevermind that most women in the world wouldn't want much to do with someone who works 18+ hour days, maintains a minimum level of hygiene, and doesn't earn very much for the effort. Even if someone knows that they're a 2 or a 3, they will still try to hook up with that 6 or 7 and have fantasies about that 8 or 9... Regardless of gender.

 

The misogynist epidemic probably has a greater tie to the amount of stupid people with an access to share every single thought they have, combined with their own pathetic social skills and changing social dynamics that no longer place men as a prestige class. Male roles are eroding quickly, leaving either ones which are unattainable by most, or ones that very few would want to deal with. I have even seen women joking a number of times that if women ruled the wold, the only suitable place for men would be doing those hard, disgusting jobs, castrated servants, or the lucky few being milked by sperm banks.

 

Equality is good, but in the process you lose those firm definitions of identity that are necessary for people to find their place in the world. The sexual division of labor didn't occur as an accident, or because of some man deciding to state his importance and make it law. It happened as a product of natural sexual cycles and sex-based development in the brain. The ideal is to have enough freedom for people to have some say in their life, but still have clearly defined roles, both socially and sexually.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

There's nothing wrong with women being portrayed in a video game based on an identity the author wants to portray her as, whether to appeal sexually or not. There's also nothing wrong with you refusing to buy something over that, but there is a problem when you demand that anyone else do the same because of your perception.

 

It's really just like nudity in a video game and real life - the only people that have a problem with it are those that believe that just because they cannot view a naked body as anything other than sexual that no one else can view a naked body as something non-sexual. But in the case of video games, it's even more ridiculous as video games are first and foremost about the entertainment value.

 

Ultimately, if you really want to see games catering to YOUR perception of how a female should be, then by all means - go for it and develop your own games - and I won't lie, since I am an adult I'm probably going to refuse to support it just like I don't support games that try to take out the violence when it comes to fighting and war. Hell, if you want to make men into sex toys - go for it - that doesn't mean I'll support you or care for your product either.

 

P.S. I also don't support equality, not when it means forcing other people to accept your perception on what 'equality' is or isn't. If there can be equality, it either must be voluntary or die.

 

Edit: so where is the image in the OP's link? I didn't see one. :(

 

Well Dang Said eodx9000. Very Well Said, Kudos to you for typing our minds Vagrant0. :thumbsup:

 

Seldom, people in Democratic and Semi democratic countries (yeah, let's just call "them" "People"), try to dictate their beliefs of what should be right too much. such laws are nebulous. we should try not to repudiate (yes I paraphrased what Vagrant said) our nature as human beings by idolizing fantastical symbols of virtual unrealities, and lose our humanity in the process. being strong and capable were traits usuaaaaaaally assigned to men and being caring and sensitive were usuaaaaaaally assigned to women, not that they are right. these days i hear women look for sensitive and caring men while men look for strong and capable women, change of gender roles methinks, increases sexual deviation. I named those traits as metonymy for the whole pack of traits assigned to each gender, and not for any specification.

 

I think (I really think a lot) trying to satire an incongruous fantasy porn is by no means wrong, only if it only tries to satire the fantasy porn. when it is allocated to a mean of further ingratiating the political and non-political ideas of the Dev to the masses while losing it's status as a game which is for Entertainment, that's when it is unacceptable to "me" 'cus 'tis no longer a work of art.

 

:rolleyes: and here I am trying to dictate my belief of what is right through nothing but my keyboard. like most people. and again I am criticizing an obscure generalized trope of a group of vague and non-existing individuals. It's in my nature, because I am young and not erudite, because the society is locked at age 13 and not erudite, fascinated by twilight (OK I'm kidding). Bigotry and generalization, cavil criticisms and extemporization are the basis of though and writing for the active online poster. I apologize for any offense caused to anyone, but the posts with "faith in humanity lost\restored" written in them make me sick. they Yell of composition with little or no preparation or practice, lack of proper diction.

 

I for one can't see the light in why trolling "comments" on YouTube are such a big Deal. the world has ~6 Billion inhabitants, which are, apparently, maybe, not concentrated in America or Europe or YouTube. it would make a big deal if 3 billion men threatened to kill, rape, terrorize a feminist Dev, but then, the majority is always Right. Criticism of a community of texts, trolls and Users IMO is cavil and provoking.I for two (I just said one above so...) believe that the anonymous online community has not assimilated the culture of acting in an anonymous online community. our posts are no dictum, they're usually just fast expressed emotional thought, which IMO can't be significant for a verdict that is fair.

 

OK I wrote way too much, if anyone reads the whole post, Blessings of Talos upon you.

 

By the way OP, how do you judge the gender of a wall of text? Anyone can troll, and all they have to do is be mischievous and insidious about it. even women can be mischievous and troll other women sometimes. just for the lol of it later.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Ihoe

[Javalin]

Unfortunately, that's the sad truth of gaming. Although Male players still are the majority, there are certainly a comparable number of female gamers too.

 

Everybody knows of the internet thing - It's a common thing among anything such as Xbox Live, MMORPGs such as TERA, World of Warcraft, Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

 

"There are no "REAL" girl gamers" or "There are no girls on the internetz"

 

In one of the posts it mentions a "Get back to the kitchen" - Which once again, that is commonly used by insecure teens (male) when they get their asses handed to them on FPS's. A very good friend of mine, she played in a competitive Halo 3 doubles league, and got to the finals. I believe it was XLeague; She, and her girlfriend (She's bisexual) were victims after the quarter finals had beaten this male team 3-0.

 

 

 

I'd be behind any female who become victims of abuse like that. If it's Xbox Live for example, when my ex and i played together regularly (when we were in a relationship) - I lost count of how many times she got abused by males. Which most of the time resulted in a one on one match.. Where she would destroy them again. Which resulted in even more abuse like "Yeah well I bet you have a dick!" - She was just naturally good at FPS games; which many didn't seem to like very much.

 

I can't stand anything like that, and would be happy to openly abuse the person doing it.

 

Coming off the topic of gaming..

 

 

The bumbling idiot of a Director at FIFA had said something on the lines of: "Women Footballers need to wear something more Low Cut to make it more appealing to Men"

[Rennn]

It's sad how this thread has begun to devolve into people saying that spreading hate is fine, but spreading forcible equality is bad.

[Vindekarr]

Agreed. :down: