EVGA 670 VS EVGA 670 4GB

[FMod]

You don't think that GK104 Architecture is all that great? Can you explain your reasoning because I have been hearing that the architecture is a lot more effective than that of the 7950/7970s

How they get better energy efficiency is because Nvidia slashed 64-bit units in favor of 32-bit (DP and SP respectively). For a while now, GPGPU has been a major driver behind GPU architecture, the reasoning behind Nvidia's own 8800 and Fermi architecture. AMD joined the game and 5000 series and above went all out. Then all of a sudden Nvidia drops DP GPGPU capabilities in 600 series.

Otherwise the new architectures (GCN and Kepler) are actually very similar.

 

Most GPGPU tasks use 64-bit calculations. However, a 64-bit unit has more transistors, which take more space and consume more power. Going back to 32 bits reduces power consumption, but obviously you can only do 32-bit calculations now.

Modern Radeons are 64-bit throughout. 500 series had 1 in 4 units as 64-bit capable. In 600 series, it's just 1 in 24, leaving the performance "compatibility only". In games, one of the effects of the change is that with PhysX on the 600 series often delivers lower framerates than 500 series, as much as twice lower in some cases. It also kills the card's potential for any other tasks that require double precision.

 

If the 600 series takes and they keep the same ratio in midrange chips, it might set consumer GPGPU development back a couple years. It did let them set higher stock clocks at low wattage, but that counts as cheating in my book - they're shooting the whole industry in the foot to get sales right now. Just hoping it was a forced measure and not done on purpose.

 

 

 

My understanding of GK104 is that it is a rushed version of GK110. Gk104 was put out at lower clocks and slower bus speeds because nVidia had last minute issues with it.

GK104 is a rushed version of GK100. Nvidia planned to roll out the 600 series in December 2011, by Christmas. There were severe issues with low level chip design, however, which didn't let that happen, because the chips all came out malfunctioning. Around August they announced a serious delay.

 

So, most likely, they took that time to quickly develop a slashed variant, GK104, partially fixing low-level issues and partially just slashing it in size to make it easier to produce. The narrow memory bus and only 2GB almost certainly came from that. Slashing 64-bit capability, hopefully also part of this rushed process. If not, they'll retard GPGPU development, which means lower computer performance and fewer GPU sales due to reduced usefulness.

 

I've been sticking with Nvidia so far, but with 600 series, IDK what to think. It's not the product we've been promised, they've been talking about better computing capabilities, more versatility, rising GFLOPS/watt, and instead it's just a stopgap.

 

 

Also FMod will a 7970 even reach those memory bus speeds at pcie2.0? Or are bus speeds always the same no matter what pcie speed granted it isn't below 2.0?

The memory bus in question is on the card itself, chip to GDDR5. The data doesn't pass through PCI-E - that's actually the point of storing it onboard. Though all new cards are PCI-E 3.0.

[Dan3345]

Oh I thought the GDDR5 on these cards also had to share with the CPU a bit. If it doesn't then I guess it would make sense that it could keep its speeds no matter what.

[Gravatrax]

A narrow memory bus is something that plagues all cards isn't that right? I am told that 3 gb 7950/7970 will only effectively use maybe up to 2.5 of the 3.0 gb capacity. So I guess my main question is this, I am wanting something with necesary bandwidth to handle some of skyrims more ram heavy mods, such as Civil War or whatever the hell its called (actually with some tweaking i dont have any issues out of that mod, phenom x4 920, no o/c, ati 4890 1gb, and 8 gb of ram that is supposed to be clocking at800 mhz but for whatever reason the computer is clocking it at 400), 2000k etc. etc. 1080p is as high as Ill go and I dont plan on doing multimonitor. I always realized that monitors that support resolutions higher than 1920x1080p are quite expensive and I don't want to throw down. So at the end of the day, is spending the extra dollars for 2 gb that will be used but still not as effectively overkill?

 

Thank you for that info Fmod, Informative as always :)

 

I am a little fearful of ATIs I here their drivers are s*** right now, if it werent for that then I hear they'd soar past NVIDIAs. Btw I am not partial to one company or the other (even if I have had several failed ATI cards, not necesarily ATIs fault) I figured thats worth noting.

 

My friend told me that the GTX660 will be out sometime in the next month, and lik the 680 in comparison to the 670, it will nearly the same and capable of performing on par to a 670.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Gravatrax

[FMod]

A narrow memory bus is something that plagues all cards isn't that right? I am told that 3 gb 7950/7970 will only effectively use maybe up to 2.5 of the 3.0 gb capacity.

It depends. The cards can load up their memory - but excess capacity doesn't help much without the bandwidth to use it.

2 GB for 256 bit has long been the norm, so 7970 with 384 at higher clocks shouldn't lack for bandwidth. 580/3GB with slower 384 bits received partial benefits from the extra memory.

 

phenom x4 920, no o/c, ati 4890 1gb, and 8 gb of ram that is supposed to be clocking at800 mhz but for whatever reason the computer is clocking it at 400)

Why no o/c? Phenoms overclock pretty well.

DDR2-800 really works at 400MHz, so that's probably why the BIOS is indicating 400. Same way as how DDR3-1333 is only 667 MHz.

 

So at the end of the day, is spending the extra dollars for 2 gb that will be used but still not as effectively overkill?

680 4GB just doesn't show any advantage over 680 2GB except with multiple displays. 670 is less powerful, so that should be even more the case. It just doesn't help any, be it because of the narrow bus or other factors.

 

 

I am a little fearful of ATIs I here their drivers are s*** right now, if it werent for that then I hear they'd soar past NVIDIAs.

Well, the latest Nvidia drivers produce severe problems in Windows, crashing games, lagging desktop, worse: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/688816-nvidia-30142-driver-problem/

Been over a month and no fix yet, except for using older drivers.

 

So it's hard to tell which is worse. Historically ATI has been slower to update their drivers, and they definitely have far less leverage when it comes to having games optimized for their cards. It also reflects in the drivers, game makers do more testing and debugging on NV cards, AMD has to play catch-up. But the cards themselves have more raw power this time, they can catch up as happened in the past.

 

Driver issues mostly affect Crossfire and SLI, single cards work well in both cases. Now, there, SLI is definitely more trouble-free than Crossfire.

[Gravatrax]

Yeah I can OC the Phenom X4 and maybe Ill give it a shot before I put in my next setup. But ahh my Ivy Bridge would destroy it stock lol. Plus the proccesor isnt unlocked which makes a bit harder. I don't know a whole lot about OCing but once the i5 gets here I plan on reading up more on it. I might do a 4.2Ghz OC that's it though

 

Well for all intents and purposes this is what my next setup

Asrock Extreme4 Z77, hopefully my dumbass doesnt bend the pins still not sure how I did that :wallbash:

Core i5 3570K Ivy Bridge

Cooler Master EVO 212 (might upgrade to a Noctua DH14 in the future)

Power and Cooling Turbo Cool 860 Watt

Cooler Master HAF932 Advanced

Gskill Sniper 1866 MHz 8 Gb ram (might throw in another pair eventually, whats the point though...really :P)

WD Caviar Black Sata 3 TB HDD

 

Im also considering getting one of the OCZ HDD

http://www.amazon.com/Agility-2-5-Inch-Midrange-Performance-AGT3-25SAT3-60G/dp/B004Z0S6RU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1340738500&sr=8-4&keywords=OCZ

A little fearful of those too, keep hearing they have issues :/

 

and for the Graphics card I guess Ill go with the GTX670 or 7950 standards. Regardless...I don't think id have any problems running games modded out, details cranked up, at 1080p, modern games

[FMod]

Well for all intents and purposes this is what my next setup

Asrock Extreme4 Z77, hopefully my dumbass doesnt bend the pins still not sure how I did that :wallbash:

You can almost always straighten them out, it takes just a little bit of finesse. Maybe 1% of the bent pins are non-repairable.

 

Cooler Master EVO 212 (might upgrade to a Noctua DH14 in the future)

Power and Cooling Turbo Cool 860 Watt

Gskill Sniper 1866 MHz 8 Gb ram (might throw in another pair eventually, whats the point though...really :P)

This should really be in a separate thread.

Anyway:

- Noctua DH14 is obsolete. Today buy Thermalright Macho HR-02, or Archon, or NZXT Havik 140.

- PC P&C is a reseller of mostly mediocre quality PSU. And Turbo-Cool is only a million years old.

I don't know how good or bad it is, but it doesn't really matter when you can buy the better Corsair TX650V2 (or 850V2, though there's no real point) for under $100.

- Fancy RAM is useless, Samsung DDR3-1600 works just as good and overclocks better.

- OCZ drives work fine, their issues are mostly all in the past, but 60GB is too low. You'd be better off with a cheaper HDD (WD Green or Hitachi) and a 120GB SSD.

[hoofhearted4]

i also agree, D14 is just overrated. i mean it performs like youve heard but at $100 i mean why pay that much? the NZXT Havik 140 is only $60 and performs just as good as the D14 AND only has 1 tower, meaning its much smaller and lighter.

 

PC Enthusiast dont want the D14s name to be tarnished so they will never admit the Havik 140 is just as good. tot hem, if you dont have a D14, you dont have a good rig (unless you go W/C)...its fanboyism really. save yourself the money and get a cheaper Heatsink.

[Gravatrax]

Ahh well getting different hardware is out of the question. My stepdad has had the PSU for a year or two without any issues, so I dont intend on buying a new one anytime any soon.

 

So I am more focused on the graphics card. I don't see any reason to switch HDD, but 60gb is pretty low capacity but Id be using solely for the OS

[Gravatrax]

Ill keep that in mind regarding the Noctua D14. I went bought a EVGA GTX670 FTW Edition (400$) 2gb, Ive seen rigs that are modded out and have less better gpus than mine and seem to run fine, so Id assume I wont really have any issues.