NCR new vegas

[sgtKraigO]

Once again your asserting your opinion as fact without providing any evidence that they are less effective in combat or transportation than any other bot. You believe that, it's fine. If you want others to believe it, bring something that supports your claim to the table. If there's no note of it in the game by any of the characters, the wiki etc that should mean something to you.

 

I never stated they would be stuck solely on pavement, there are a lot of terrain they can go through it's just their wheel would hinder their movement through rough terrain and mud, lose sand, etc. Just because I said it was built for one role doesn't mean I think they can't do it, they just wouldn't be as effective at it.

Your own words;

 

their maneuverability is limited as they only have one wheel and wouldn't be able to fight in rough terrain.

In muddy terrain the securitron will get stuck and this is just simple gravity.

I don't know if you'v forgotten your previous statements, misspoke or are moving the goal posts.

 

You may believe that House designed, manufactured and stored 100s of Robots for the apocalypse with teh full knowledge that mud could defeat/immobilize them, but I personally think he's smarter than that and that securitrons can indeed handle the various terrains of the Mojave.

 

I'm not sure what you mean here, are you implying that I said they were only limited to pavement? Because I didn't and none of the comments you quoted back up your implication or are you implying that I'm trying to say they can't be an offensive force what so ever? What I have been saying is their wheel is obviously designed for the pavement but that doesn't limit them to it. They can still go over dirt, up hills as long as they aren't steep, and other packed ground. I'm saying that because of their weight and their single wheel (which can't produce a lot of traction in certain terrain because of the tread pattern) that exerts a high amount of ground pressure they can't move through certain terrain. This is basic physics at work that have to be in the lore because there is gravity, but you're dismissing that because there is no wiki page written up on it. There's no wiki page on gravity, dirt, snow, and sand but they're still in the game and the lore.

 

Put a door in front of a securitron in the geck and tell me it can conduct cqc operations. The securitrons size hinders their capabilities of conducting certain offensive tactics. They can't go through the average door, they can't go through narrow corridors, they have to go around obstacles that are roughly the same size or bigger than their wheel. All of this would reduce their effectiveness in an offensive role. Just because it has impressive fire power doesn't mean it's meant for an offensive role, there's more to fighting then who has the biggest gun.

 

The only difference between the various terrains in-game is that there is elevation, depression, and different colours. None of them hinder your movement, or anyone's movement because the devs didn't factor that in, just like how they didn't factor in the traction of of a wheel when going up hill, just like how they didn't factor in the density of water when the player drops from certain heights. These are basic physics that must be accounted for because this takes place on Earth only in an alternate timeline.

Edited March 18, 2015 by sgtKraigO

[sgtKraigO]

Here are three quests I came up with. If something doesn't sound right just let me know and I'll try to clarify it. Also I'll be away for a few days as I have some RL problems that need sorting out.

 

The first quest is inspired by the ending of the movie Zero Dark Thirty, when the Navy SEALS infiltrated Osama Bin Laden's compound. This will take place 2-3 months after the 2nd battle of Hoover Dam and since we know the NCR sent rangers and 1st recon into Arizona I believe many would stay in order to collect as much information on the Legion as possible. One of the Rangers/1st Recon squad finds the location of the leader of the frumentarii who has been living on the outskirts of Flagstaff in a lightly guarded compound. If Nelis AFB is controlled by the NCR then they send 2 vertibirds with a squad of rangers each plus the courier to a location fairly close to the Frumentarius' compound but will take them about a 2-3 hour walk to get there. Sometime after they disembark the aircraft, the rangers and the courier meet up with another squad of rangers and one 1st recon squad who have been scouting in the region. As for the vertibirds, they will head back to Nelis AFB for refueling. If the NCR doesn't control Nelis AFB then the rangers walk there but you lose a few along the way. From there the troops will head towards the compound and wait until 12-1am and move in. The 1st Recon squad will provide sniper support, the 1st and 2nd ranger squads and the courier will move into the compound and attempt to capture the Frumentarii leader, the 3rd ranger squad will secure the perimeter of the compound ensuring that no Legion member will leave or enter the compound. Depending on how stealthy the courier was when they were moving towards the compound and entering it they will either find the guards and people inside wide awake and ready for a fight, or find just the guards awake and unaware of their presence. Once the courier has taken out everyone they will move further into the compound and attempt to capture the frumentarii leader. If he is sleeping then they can successfully take him alive and retreat back to where the vertibirds are suppose to meet you. If he was awaken by the guards who seen you then you will either have to disarm him or kill him. Either way you will alarm some of guards patrolling the town and you will have to fight your way out and back to a secondary LZ. Once back at Nelis AFB the commanding officer will task you with getting information out of him. Of course if there are no Vertibirds then the player is stuck walking, but instead of going back to Nelis AFB right away you will interrogate the hostage in a cave some of the rangers and 1st Recon have been using as a safehouse.

 

The second quest takes place about a year after the 2nd battle of Hoover Dam. Caesar dies from his tumor and a new Caesar takes his place and begins training troops in a small canyon north of Flagstaff in the hopes of keeping them hidden from spies (if you killed Caesar then the only difference is that the new Caesar has been training troops for a few months now). NCR Rangers find the location and inform the commander at McCarren. If the NCR controls Nelis and have the bomber then they will bomb the entrance to the canyon as it is heavily guarded, if there is no bomber then you're stuck fighting your way in. The attack will be lead by rangers who have been in Arizona and troopers, heavy troopers, and the courier who are dropped off via Vertibirds. 1st Recon squads who have been scouting will cover the rear and provide sniper support. From there the courier will fight their way into the camp and kill the new Caesar and any high ranked members. If Nelis AFB isn't under NCR control then the courier with some squads of rangers walk into Arizona and meet up with the remaining force who will then assault the fort. Of course some endings will result in heavier losses than others.

 

The third quest could take place either sometime before or after the second. The NCR receives information from the captured frumentarii leader (if he's alive)or from scouts that a small group (20-30 people) of ex-legionnaires and escaped slaves most of whom were a part of a tribe that was one of the last conquered by the legion are living in the grand canyon. The NCR sends the courier to make contact with the group and see if they require any help. After you make contact they tell you they kept in contact with each other as much as possible after their assimilation and they held onto their previous identity as best they could. After the defeat at Hoover Dam and the possible death of Caesar they took the advantage and left the Legion and they ask the courier to send aid. Once back in the Mojave the courier informs the NCR commanding officer that they are in need of support. The courier then has to go to an OSI member and inform them about the situation and ask if they could send a few engineers and/or scientists who work for the OSI. Depending on if the courier has completed There Stands the Grass and fix the problems at the Sharecroppers Farm it will affect how many people they send. The courier could also go and talk to a FotA member and see if they could spare any members (depending on the Followers ending of course). Once you do that you along with a few rangers and who every else you manage to recruit meet up with the tribe and begin to help them out. After a while and a few guns, explosives, repair, survival, medicine, etc. checks (depending on how many people you bring with you these will be easier or harder) and as the tribe starts to find more escaped slaves one of the hunters informs the elder that a legion raiding party is on its way to their location and you have to help them defend their homes. Depending on how well you helped them will dictate how effective they will be in combat. After a few small waves of legionaries the elder thanks you and your job is done and since you've been very helpful they volunteer to act as guides for any ranger and 1st recon squads scouting in legion territory. Essentially this is going to be similar to the Flags of our Foul-ups quest if you choose Mags but longer and with more and varying skill checks and with a legion fight at the end.

 

As for the player becoming a ranger, I think these quests will work well with that. Although I would like to see the courier still having to go through ranger training first, the only special privilege they get is they skip becoming a grunt and go straight to ranger. Once the courier becomes a ranger they could be in charge of a 4 man squad who are basically companions, receive pay but also have to pay taxes (You're an NCR citizen now). These quests can happen after the courier becomes a ranger. It would also be interesting if the courier could give a few orders to them at certain points in the quests as well (e.g. having one of your squad members training the tribe how to accurately shoot a gun as well as maintain them). For the pay checks and taxes I think it would be best if the player had to travel to McCarran to receive their pay and for taxes they have to travel the embassy which is now a town hall and will have to pay a small percentage based off of how much they make. If the player doesn't go there then (depending on if they're in the mojave) will be tracked down every other week and reminded. If the player still continues to ignore the messages then he will be hunted by a bounty hunter who will say they have to pay. Of course the courier could simply kill bounty hunter but that would result in being hated by the NCR.

 

I am that aware this will be a lot to do but I can happily help out with creating a new world space.

[devinpatterson]

Nope, I'v already quoted you saying the securitrons will get stuck in mud and they cannot fight in rough terrain, your own words. If you don't see how that is different than what your claiming now, it's not my job to explain it to you again. I have zero interest in wasting further time in a completely unproductive discussion with you. If I wasn't clear in my previous post, then I'll reiterate, we are not working together. Best of luck in your future endeavors but I won't engage in this behavior with you.

[sgtKraigO]

Nope, I'v already quoted you saying the securitrons will get stuck in mud and they cannot fight in rough terrain, your own words. If you don't see how that is different than what your claiming now, it's not my job to explain it to you again. I have zero interest in wasting further time in a completely unproductive discussion with you. If I wasn't clear in my previous post, then I'll reiterate, we are not working together. Best of luck in your future endeavors but I won't engage in this behavior with you.

 

So because you're claiming that I said that they would be able to go over packed ground, means that I'm contradicting myself because I also said they can't go through mud or over rocks... You do realize mud is soft mushy stuff and packed dirt can be pretty supportive of weight?

 

Also if you don't want my help on a mod that you've been working on for a few years. and will probably take a few more, that's fine. But hey, all I did was explain to you how a mono wheeled vehicle with a tire designed to grip pavement would get stuck in lose sand and mud. As for their size, they can't even fit through a door.

[devinpatterson]

Nope, I have no interest in wasting more time, best of luck on your endeavors.