14th Amendment Keep Or Change?

[Deleted67195711User]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He isn't trying to change the 14th amendment, he is trying to change the way it is enforced. Basically, birthright citizenship should ONLY apply to children born here of parents that are in the country legally. If you are not here legally, your child will not get automagic citizenship. I completely agree.

 

By that measure, a child born inside American borders is a citizen so long as their mother has a valid visa. Even a ten day vacation visa.

 

Now, some truthes.

 

Trump cannot change; or override by fait, the Constitution. To get around that, Trump wants Congress to REWRITE the 14th Amendment

 

Trump stated he wants to limit Native Soil birth rights to ONLY those who are born in the US and whose parents (plural) are citizens.

Trump commented that it would be good to 'change' the14th Amendment's Citizenship Clause and "fix" the Civil Rights Act of 1866. He even expressed his admiration for the Supreme Courts 1857 Dred Scott decision, which the 14th Amendment's Citizenship clause was specifically written to invalidate.

Trump stated he wants to 'change' the equal protection clause contained in the 14th Amendment to make it easier to incarcerate and prosecute "immigrants and other undesirables".

Trump has also expressed a desire to 'change' or delete the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment so that '"immigrants and other undesirables" can be summarily incarcerated and held indefinitely without trial or hearing.

 

Any statement that the only thing Trump wants to change in the 14th Amendment is the 'Citizenship Clause" is self serving, delusional or an "alternate fact".

 

And Trump doesn't want to stop with the 14th Amendment. Trump has expressed his desire to make changes to, or simply eliminate, the 1st, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10th, 15th, 19th, 22nd and 24th Amendments. Trump has also stated that the Constitution (the document he took an oath to "preserve, protect and defend") "needs to be fixed, it's old".

 

The Constitution and it's Amendments are not the problem.

 

I would LOVE to see some proof of the rest of your claims.......

 

But, all that aside, this is pretty much a dead issue. not a squeak about it in quite some time.

 

 

 

Towards the end of the reign of Southern Slaveholders, one Dred Scott sued his owner to be recognized as a free citizen. A lower Federal Court held for Scott, as he was living in a Free State. The Supreme Court overturned the Lower court and in their decision, denied Citizenship to all slaves, freed or not.

 

Following the end of the Southern Insurrection to preserve slavery and Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, several southern states passed laws restricting the vote to Whites only. They also passed laws which required freed slaves to repay the war debts incurred by the several states which formed the Confederated States.

 

For the purposes of the Census, ex slaves where only counted as 3/5^th a person, or less. and in some places were not counted at all. All of this was in an attempt to limit or eliminate the representation of freed slaves in government.

 

Several states which comprised the Confederated States were flooding the Federal government with elected officials which had been prominent officers and elected officials in the Confederated Government and Military. These people were not happy with the end results of their insurrection and attempted to continue that conflict in the halls of Congress.

 

Thus, Congress passed and the states ratified the 14th Amendment.

 

Amendment XIV Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.

The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

 

 

Section one specifically nullifies the Supreme Courts Decision in the Dred Scott case and gives Citizenship to freed slaves and their descendants as native born citizens. It is this clause that contains the native birthplace language which Trump is denigrating and says he wants eliminated. But, Section one also contains the "equal protection" clause that provides all citizens the same legal protections. This is the section that Trump et al really want to eliminate. They will tell you it is about immigrants and refugees, but in truth, Trump is after the Equal Protection Clause. Without that clause it would de much easier to put people he doesn't like in prison, without trial, hearing or conviction. Reporters would probably be the first people to disappear into into the for-profit prisons run by Trump supporters.

 

And before the tar and feathers are unpacked, Let me run down the list.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

 

Trump has expressed a desire to eliminate the "freedom of the Press" and "freedom of Speech" clauses from the 1^st Amendment. Trump wants free reign to silence the critics which continually point at his lies. Part of the strategy is to cut out the Equal Protection Clause from the 14^th Amendment so his critics can be imprisoned.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

Trump has expressed his wish to curtail or eliminate the protections against 'unreasonable search and seizure" in the 4^th Amendment. Trump has complained loudly that the government is not allowed to summarily enter establishments and randomly seize any persons they suspect of being an' illegal immigrant'. Trump stated that the requirement to get a warrant only serves to warn the immigrants that the raid was coming and shouldn't be a requirement.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

 

At one of his rallies, Trump ranted that he had to give 'illegal immigrants' and 'asylum seekers' a chance to be heard in a court. He wanted the "due process of law" clause eliminated from the 5^th Amendment so he could hold 'immigrants' in prison (a for-profit prison) indefinitely without ever showing them the inside of a court room.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

 

The 9^th Amendment is being used by several States to justify their creation of "sanctuary laws" which prohibit law enforcement from questioning those who report crimes about their immigration status. Trump is furious that these states "have been allowed to hide behind the Constitution and protect illegal immigrants". He wants the 9^th Amendment eliminated.

 

The 9^th Amendment was a consideration during the Supreme Courts' decision in Roe v Wade. Rights not defined by the Constitution but retained by the people are not to be limited, which includes medical decisions. Trump has lamented the Roe V Wade decision and the 9^th Amendments role in that decision. Trump expressed his desire to eliminate the protections in the 9th Amendment.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

 

The 10^th Amendment is being used by several States to justify their creation of "sanctuary laws" which prohibit law enforcement from questioning those who report crimes about their immigration status. Trump is furious that these states "have been allowed to hide behind the Constitution and protect illegal immigrants". He wants the 10^th Amendment eliminated.

Amendment XV Section 1.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2.

The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

 

Trump claims that the 15th Amendment is being used to give voting rights to 'illegal immigrants' (a claim for which he has supplied no evidence). He wants the 15th Amendment repealed "to stop voter fraud".

Amendment XIX

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex.

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

 

This Amendment was passed in response to the Supreme Court Case Minor v. Happersett (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/88/162). That Supreme Courts decision struck down a clause in the Constitution of the State of Missouri which limited voting rights to men only. The majority opinion of the court also upheld the "native birth" clause of the 14th Amendment and included ALL persons born in the US. Trump doesn't give a damn about women's votes. What he dislikes and wants eliminated is the "native birth" definitions contained in the decision, and the 19th Amendment is based off that Court decision.

 

Amendment XXII Section 1.

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.

Section 2.

This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several states within seven years from the date of its submission to the states by the Congress.

 

If the reason that Trump has lead the drive to repeal the 22nd Amendment isn't immediately obvious, you do not belong in this discussion.

 

Amendment XXIV Section 1.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

Section 2.

The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

 

The 24th Amendment was written specifically to eliminate the Voter Registration restriction which required the payment of property taxes and the payment of a additional "poll tax" to register to vote in eleven southern States. The 24th Amendment is the only Amendment written to specifically address a voter suppression in the 'Jim Crow South".

 

Trump is claiming that the application of this Amendment is permitting 'illegal immigrants' to commit voter fraud and register to vote, so it should be overturned.

 

 

 

 

 

HeyYou, I hope that this answers your questions. I further hope that others will recognize the current effort to take away some of our Constitutional freedoms.

 

 

 

 

 

Citations needed.

 

 

You can read any of several thousand articles by the NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, BBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, Forbes Magazine, USA Today, CNN, NPR News, PBS, Reuters, Associated Press News, London Financial Times and several hundred other news outlets.

 

I deliberately did not provide the links because I did not want to get into the "liberal press" arguments which inevitably follow links to news reports.

[thumbincubation]

This is not how citations work.

[Deleted67195711User]

This is not how citations work.

 

True. As I said, "I did not want to get into the "liberal press" arguments which inevitably follow links to news reports". At that point, it becomes a discussion of the press and no longer about the 14th Amendment. My Don Quixote suit is thread bare and I have no desire to tilt at that windmill.

 

[Mktavish]

citations ... ? I don't think you really wanna know how they work.

The problem is you are thinking about 1 citation ... not more diverse citation.

 

Why do you believe ?

[Mktavish]

Don Quixote

[Deleted67195711User]

citations ... ? I don't think you really wanna know how they work.

The problem is you are thinking about 1 citation ... not more diverse citation.

 

Why do you believe ?

 

You obviously missed the plural in the words "links' and "reports".

[Mktavish]

 

You obviously missed the plural in the words "links' and "reports".

 

 

Yes I did miss the meaning ... enlighten me ?

[Mktavish]

But thumby meant to demean you , so I came in and agreed with you diversion of who cares.

 

Atleast it was my intention.

[Mktavish]

Do y0u play an instrument ?

[Mktavish]

That is a serious side question about playing an instrument,

 

But this dialogue makes me realize ... I feel responsible at some point for your experience on this forum. From that first time I told you , you were not helping the discussion.

 

And if you don't discuss it with me ... will be sad :(