kevinno Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) You've heard the story a thousand times, installed at least fifty to sixty mods all using the Nexus Mod Manager and eventually noticed some irreversible problems. The first involved a zone being completely shot -- the game crashes if you even try to enter Understone Keep in Markarth (only mod I have relating to that zone could be Markarth plus trees and ruins). The second involved a very rare but ruthless bug where zones would literally be devoid of their normal structure. You walk in, and fall for ten seconds until you hit water, only to be teleported back up to fall again. There are still scraps of ground, floor, walls, npcs, and objects but the cave is for the most part empty open space, only navigable via the console command TCL. I scanned through all my mods and really couldn't think of what could be causing such an issue. I had no mods that overhauled caves or dungeons, but more of mods that improved general graphics such as ENB's or Mesh Improvements. So I devised a plan: 1. I backed up all my data and created a restore point incase I screwed everything up. 2. I copied my Skyrim folder and my Skyrim folder from C:/user/games to another folder incase I messed up. 3. I uninstalled Skyrim completely, even to the point of deleting both the Skyrim and skyrim folder from games from my computer. 4. I opened Nexus Mod Manager and deleted all the mods listed (even though technically they didn't exist anymore because the Skyrim folder had been deleted at that point -- it still confuses me why they were still there). 5. I re-installed Skyrim but without any mods. 6. I moved my user/games/skyrim folder and replaced the one that had just been installed by Skyrim, then I logged in mod-less into my last save file to test if it had worked. Sure enough, I could now enter those zones again; everything was fixed. I logged out then without saving. 7. Luckily, I had a text file with the names of every single mod I had downloaded before. I then spent LITERALLY AN ENTIRE DAY re-installing the mods making sure I was very logical about compatibility issues. Optimizing load orders was very important as well. I spent a considerable amount of time making sure I hadn't missed a single mod for re-download. 8. I ran SKSE and pressed "Continue" in Skyrim main menu. I felt very good about it, because the option that said "Data is missing blah blah blah you uninstalled a mod that was previously here is now gone blah blah" never came up. 9. When I logged in, new quests like "Moonpath to Elswer" began as if I had never done it in the first place, my character had no hair even though apachii skyhair was installed (and was installed previously), my temptress follower was gone, etc. The good news is that the broken zones issue was fixed, but the Markarth game crash bug was STILL there. I thought about my options from here: Option 1: Computer restore back in time. Try and somehow isolate the mod that is causing the issue out of at least sixty. There may be a chance that there is nothing I can do as it could be a game files problem. Option 2: Play Skyrim and avoid the bugged areas as much as possible. Option 3: Use my new and healthy Skyrim. Create a new character at level 1. SOMEHOW find a way how to transfer all my quest and NPC progress (which NPC's are dead, listed as essential etc) to the new game file. Then, I would add in my stats, items, attributes, and skills using console commands. List of my mods (SOMEWHAT in that load order) =Unofficial Skyrim Patch=Sharpshooters Extreme Graphics Vision ENB - good performance=Static Mesh Improvement Mod - SMIM=Better Dynamic Snow=HD Textures DLC Fix=Daedric Shield Hi-Res Texture Pack Fix=Skyrim HD - 2K Textures=WATER - Water And Terrain Enhancement Redux=Lush Grass=Dynamic Fires (Workshop)=Grey Ledge Manor - No Load Doors (Workshop)=Windfall Island (Legend of Zelda : Windwaker) (Workshop)=DYNAVISION - Dynamic Depth of Field=Accingite Vos - Shields HQ Retextures=Skyrim Flora Overhaul=Covereyes=Visible Windows=CLARALUX - More and Brighter Lights=Temptress Race=ULTRA REALISTIC WORLD LIGHTING for Skyrim BETA (Manual) (Version V2B) [skyrimURWL]=Crimson Tide - Blood=SkyUI=Calientes Female Body Mod Big Bottom Edition -CBBE-=ApachiiSkyHair=Immersive HUD - iHUD=Lanterns of Skyrim - All In One=Deadly Dragons=Deadly Dragons Armory=Dragons Diversified=Sounds of Skyrim - The Wilds=Sounds of Skyrim - The Dungeons=KUNOICHI female voice=Feminine Running and New Dash Animation=DSpSoB - Dual Sheath plus Shields on Back=Custom Skeleton Files (Manual) (Version 1.0) [Neovalen Custom Skeleton Pack 1]=Momo Acrobatic Jump=Fores New Idles in Skyrim - FNIS=Momo Acrobatic Jump=3rd Person Dual Wield Animation Fix=new female 2-hand sword and bow animations (Manual) (Version 30 April 2012) [bow animation]=Pretty Female Idles=Victorias High Heel walk Animation plus BBP=Proper Aiming=Realistic Ragdolls and Force=Running with your Bow Replacer (Manual) (Version 1.0) [Running with a bow 3rd person]=Sit animation=Sounds of Nature Redux - Water and Fire=Alduins Scale Armor (Manual) [Meshes/Justice & Alduins Son.esp]=Altered Beginning (Workshop)=Amethyst Hollows Dreamworld=Arrowsmith v3b - Simple Fletching (Workshop)=Behemoth The Feathered Dragon=Better Quest Objectives=Birds and Flocks=Birds of skyrim=Blackreach Railroad=Build Your Own Home=Closer Quivers and Longer Arrows=Dark Lilith Sexy Succubus Armor CBBE NKT=Dread Knight Weapon Set=Equipment Of Eternal Shine - Elven Overhaul=Expanded Winterhold Destruction Ruins=Faster Horses (Manual) (Version 1.0.0) [FasterHorses_Sprint_x1_5]=Insanitys Dragonbane=SkyJubs Invisible Helmets=Knight of Thorns Armor and Spear of Thorns=main menu wallpaper replacer HD 1080p now with randomizer=Moonpath to Elsweyr=NightingGale Carbon=Reapers The Dark Tower=MAK07s Remodeled Armor CBBEv3M - Non Nude By Joseph Anthony=Remodeled Armor CBBEv3M=SB The Elder Scrolls V - Skyrim NO Intro Movie=Siege Bow Collection=Silver Dragon Armor=Spouses Can Live Everywhere=Thieves Guild Duelist Armor CBBEv3 Echo =Vicky Armor Set - UNP Mashup=Void armor by Hentai - Nexus Exclusive -=Wearable Lanterns What would you guys recommend me doing? Also, if anyone says "Load an earlier save" I will single handedly rip their balls off with my bare hands. You think I didn't try that already ;) Thank you everyone! Edited June 28, 2012 by kevinno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yafi Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Post here in spoiler tags the entire list of mods you currently use, my guess is that new worldspace mods like Moonpath to Elseweyr could be the culprit, that mod is known to make trolls and NPCs go invisible (lose their mesh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiegril Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 If the problem is related to a mod conflict (as it seems) then repeating steps 1-6, then starting a new game (old savegames could also be corrupted) playing through the cave at Helgen in vanilla, and then adding mods one at a time,(exactly according to the mod author's instructions, reading the readme to check for known conflicts, prerequisites, etc. and running BOSS after each for optimal load order. After that playing a bitto make sure it works That should help you determine exactly what mod is involved. You can start with the mods you cant live without, and then add the others. When you find the problem, you can return to the author's web site, especially looking for known issues, and reading the discussion thread to see if others have had the same issue and maybe a work around. If not, you can go through again starting with that mod and adding the others to find where the conflict actually lies, and decide between those mods, or, you can just leave that mod out, depending on your preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinno Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 List of mods (SOMEWHAT in that load order) =Unofficial Skyrim Patch=Sharpshooters Extreme Graphics Vision ENB - good performance=Static Mesh Improvement Mod - SMIM=Better Dynamic Snow=HD Textures DLC Fix=Daedric Shield Hi-Res Texture Pack Fix=Skyrim HD - 2K Textures=WATER - Water And Terrain Enhancement Redux=Lush Grass=Dynamic Fires (Workshop)=Grey Ledge Manor - No Load Doors (Workshop)=Windfall Island (Legend of Zelda : Windwaker) (Workshop)=DYNAVISION - Dynamic Depth of Field=Accingite Vos - Shields HQ Retextures=Skyrim Flora Overhaul=Covereyes=Visible Windows=CLARALUX - More and Brighter Lights=Temptress Race=ULTRA REALISTIC WORLD LIGHTING for Skyrim BETA (Manual) (Version V2B) [skyrimURWL]=Crimson Tide - Blood=SkyUI=Calientes Female Body Mod Big Bottom Edition -CBBE-=ApachiiSkyHair=Immersive HUD - iHUD=Lanterns of Skyrim - All In One=Deadly Dragons=Deadly Dragons Armory=Dragons Diversified=Sounds of Skyrim - The Wilds=Sounds of Skyrim - The Dungeons=KUNOICHI female voice=Feminine Running and New Dash Animation=DSpSoB - Dual Sheath plus Shields on Back=Custom Skeleton Files (Manual) (Version 1.0) [Neovalen Custom Skeleton Pack 1]=Momo Acrobatic Jump=Fores New Idles in Skyrim - FNIS=Momo Acrobatic Jump=3rd Person Dual Wield Animation Fix=new female 2-hand sword and bow animations (Manual) (Version 30 April 2012) [bow animation]=Pretty Female Idles=Victorias High Heel walk Animation plus BBP=Proper Aiming=Realistic Ragdolls and Force=Running with your Bow Replacer (Manual) (Version 1.0) [Running with a bow 3rd person]=Sit animation=Sounds of Nature Redux - Water and Fire=Alduins Scale Armor (Manual) [Meshes/Justice & Alduins Son.esp]=Altered Beginning (Workshop)=Amethyst Hollows Dreamworld=Arrowsmith v3b - Simple Fletching (Workshop)=Behemoth The Feathered Dragon=Better Quest Objectives=Birds and Flocks=Birds of skyrim=Blackreach Railroad=Build Your Own Home=Closer Quivers and Longer Arrows=Dark Lilith Sexy Succubus Armor CBBE NKT=Dread Knight Weapon Set=Equipment Of Eternal Shine - Elven Overhaul=Expanded Winterhold Destruction Ruins=Faster Horses (Manual) (Version 1.0.0) [FasterHorses_Sprint_x1_5]=Insanitys Dragonbane=SkyJubs Invisible Helmets=Knight of Thorns Armor and Spear of Thorns=main menu wallpaper replacer HD 1080p now with randomizer=Moonpath to Elsweyr=NightingGale Carbon=Reapers The Dark Tower=MAK07s Remodeled Armor CBBEv3M - Non Nude By Joseph Anthony=Remodeled Armor CBBEv3M=SB The Elder Scrolls V - Skyrim NO Intro Movie=Siege Bow Collection=Silver Dragon Armor=Spouses Can Live Everywhere=Thieves Guild Duelist Armor CBBEv3 Echo =Vicky Armor Set - UNP Mashup=Void armor by Hentai - Nexus Exclusive -=Wearable Lanterns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinno Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 If the problem is related to a mod conflict (as it seems) then repeating steps 1-6, then starting a new game (old savegames could also be corrupted) playing through the cave at Helgen in vanilla, and then adding mods one at a time,(exactly according to the mod author's instructions, reading the readme to check for known conflicts, prerequisites, etc. and running BOSS after each for optimal load order. After that playing a bitto make sure it works That should help you determine exactly what mod is involved. You can start with the mods you cant live without, and then add the others. When you find the problem, you can return to the author's web site, especially looking for known issues, and reading the discussion thread to see if others have had the same issue and maybe a work around. If not, you can go through again starting with that mod and adding the others to find where the conflict actually lies, and decide between those mods, or, you can just leave that mod out, depending on your preferences.Thank for the response, but realize that when I re-installed Skyrim and loaded back in, both bugs were gone. With the freshly re-installed Skyrim, I then put all my mods back. The bug that made some zones swiss cheesed with textures holes that made you fall as soon as you zoned in was completely gone. That means it had to be a problem with my Skyrim game itself, not the mods. How does one work around that? How can I re-install Skyrim's core files but make it so my mods don't freak out once a new Skyrim game is in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiegril Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Is that your load order? If so you may benefit from downloading BOSS and running it to optimise your loading. Otherwise, the suggestions I had may still help. Here is a link to Bben's troubleshooting post on his blog, it also may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinno Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Is that your load order? If so you may benefit from downloading BOSS and running it to optimise your loading. Otherwise, the suggestions I had may still help. Here is a link to Bben's troubleshooting post on his blog, it also may help.It is pretty close to my real load order. The top half is definitely mirrored to be my load order. The bottom half is jumbled up a bit though. I don't see how a program could realize what needs to be where in load orders, but I will try it out. Remember, fixing load orders or mods will only solve one of the two bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinno Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Is that your load order? If so you may benefit from downloading BOSS and running it to optimise your loading. Otherwise, the suggestions I had may still help. Here is a link to Bben's troubleshooting post on his blog, it also may help.Wait... should I install a mod, use BOSS, then repeat? Or have BOSS manage everything at once? Second question, should I go back to my previous restore point and uninstall all mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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