vinh834 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 A NPC once said that Skyrim receives large amounts of Food Aid from the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 If the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, then the answer is simple. Make "the many" into "the few", or better yet, make them "the none". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Ehh, that's debatable. But what I'm saying is that if they could have, they would have paid mercenaries to retake the city. Do you have any evidence to support that claim? We know that the Empire is willing to give occupied territories to native peoples, in exchange for fealty to the Empire. We've seen it most commonly with the Orcs, but also with the Khajit and to a lesser extent the Bosmer. We also know that the Empire has been showing its wealth in paying to support loyal Jarls (going to far 'brobe' Balgruf) to furnish their own armies instead of having to send in the Legions proper. That's why Tullius complains about having to recruit locally. We know that the sequence of events around the Markarth Incedent involved several key points. Madanach and the Reachmen rise up (largely non-violently) and take control of Markarth. The Reachmen stablish contact with the Empire, asking for sovreignty over their ancestrial lands. Ulfric and the Stormcloaks show up. Ulfric is offered free-worship of Talos to put down the rebellion (by whom we are never told. It is as likely it was the Empire its self as the Jarl or Markarth, and we may never know for sure) and precedes to butcher people. The Thalmor catch wind of the deal, and force the Empire to revoke the free worship of Talos. Thats really all we know for sure. As to the original point of this thread... It has been noticed before. Many, many times. In a purely isolated thought exprement, yes, the Stormcloaks have every ethical right to demand independance. However, these types of events can't exist in a nice clean thought bubble. If you remove Ulfric, the Talos ban, the Thalmor, the Markarth incedent and all the various layers of muck, you have two points of view. The Stormcloaks want independance. The Imperials want unity. Both are ethically perfectly equal. The only, and i mean ONLY way, to determine who stands on the higher ehtical ground (and we're talking by milimeters here) is to delve into the very muck the OP wants to ignore. Which, i presume, i have missed almost 20 pages of in my 12 hour work day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 If you don't know why the Stormcloaks want independence, you haven't paid any attention at all to the opening sequence at Helgen. Even without the whole Talos issue, there is enough damning evidence at Helgen to realize the Empire needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya1997 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 If you don't know why the Stormcloaks want independence, you haven't paid any attention at all to the opening sequence at Helgen. Even without the whole Talos issue, there is enough damning evidence at Helgen to realize the Empire needs to go. Having played through Helgen more times than I care to count, I can honestly say that there's not really any evidence there that's pro-Stormcloak or pro-Empire. Closest you get is the a**hole captain who decides to execute you because it's better to be safe than sorry. A horrible act, but I can see where it's coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Having played through Helgen more times than I care to count, I can honestly say that there's not really any evidence there that's pro-Stormcloak or pro-Empire. Closest you get is the a**hole captain who decides to execute you because it's better to be safe than sorry. A horrible act, but I can see where it's coming from.Being captured next to Uflric, like the Dovahkiin was, is like being caught in the same house as Osama bin Laden, yeah there pretty much gonna kill you out of safety sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Having played through Helgen more times than I care to count, I can honestly say that there's not really any evidence there that's pro-Stormcloak or pro-Empire. Closest you get is the a**hole captain who decides to execute you because it's better to be safe than sorry. A horrible act, but I can see where it's coming from.Being captured next to Uflric, like the Dovahkiin was, is like being caught in the same house as Osama bin Laden, yeah there pretty much gonna kill you out of safety sake. Agreed. You think if the pizza delivery boy was in the house waiting to be paid when the SEALs went in, they'd wait to make sure he wasn't a threat? The intro sequence is rather weighted in favor of the Stormcloaks. It's never a good sign when a government is rounding up people and executing them. However, anyone whose paid more than a fleeting iota of attention to what NPC's say throughout the game will know that it's the Stormcloaks fault people are being rounded up. They started barking, the Thalmor heard it, and the Empire had to muzzled them before getting dragged into a war on someone elses terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) So the solution is to sit quiet, huddle in your cellar with your Talos idol for the rest of your life - be a good compliant servant of the Thalmor - a religious prisoner in your own home? That is the kind of thing that rebellions are started over, if not Ulfric it would be someone else. Ulfric is just the face - people don't run to Windhelm to join Ulfric, they join the cause. It's not until you understand the Empire negotiated away something they had no moral authority to negotiate away that you really understand why the Stormcloaks are fighting. Edited September 23, 2012 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 It's not until you understand the Empire negotiated away something they had no moral authority to negotiate away that you really understand why the Stormcloaks are fighting. I have already gone into a very long explination of ethics, government responsibility, and varriable freedoms elsewhere on this board, and frankly i'd rather not re-type that essay. Sufficed to day, the Empire, as a government, has a moral Obligation to protect its peoples lives first and formost. This means that they also have the moral right to impose sanctions and restrictions in the persuit of that obligation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSGC1 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Without delving into deeper sociopolitical issues that surround independence, I think it's fair to say that without the Empire's help Skyrim would fall to the might of the Thalmor armies. Which is why I killed Ulfric, killed the Emperor, and will start a new dragonborn Emperor line with my endearing wife, Njada Stonearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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