An Idea (Alternate ending to Dead Money)

[darkus37]

I used this mod that modifies the transportalponder to allow travel to the sierra madre and I got to say, there was nothing to do there or see (like Honest Hearts). Even if you respawn the ghost people it's still a little boring once you've explored everything. I got the impression that Christine stayed to make sure that the Sierra Madre was not used by people like Elijah so the only way to get her to leave would be if the Sierra Madre was gone. As for the auto-docs, that is true, but lonesome road has pretty advanced tech as well. However, if you want to stick with OWB, there is no reason why you can't make the quest involve bringing an upgraded auto-doc with you so that the clinic will have a permanent upgrade. I like the end slide - it's nice and sweet and considering what those two have been through, they deserve it.

[Kataspie]

That end slide option is awesome. And actually I could not have worded it better myself.

 

Sorry for the delay, yes life did get in the way. About my testosterone, it is medical, no one is exactly sure why it went up. As there doesn't seem to be an obvious physical cause, at the moment.

 

It also occurred to me from what Darkus said, that if you wanted to link the Sierra Madre and OWB then you could make it so that the last quest involving Christine is an upgrade for the Transportal Ponder that allows one to travel not only to Big Mountain but the Sierra Madre as well.

 

Also, another thing occurred to me. As a way of getting a droid body for Dala but not touching the Institute of the Commonwealth, you could say that Repconn Headquarters commissioned a female droid body for its museum "take highway 93 up".

 

Another option, when retrieving the undamaged voice module for Dr 8 if you spoke to him before about voices and Christine, he could then make a bunch of static in which he asks you for a copy of one of the Ulysses/Christine Holotapes, Later, Say after waiting 3 days if you ask 8 if he has "discovered anything good lately* rather then making static he actually says with a voice, that he was able to make an implant for Christine using the recording of her voice from the holotape. And with Christine being claustrophobic from the Sierra Madre Auto Doc, you could then get specialist training from Usanagi for the psychiatric treatment so it is from someone Christrine trusts more so, but also get specialist training from the auto doc after find an upgrade for him to install the implants for Christine, so that she doesn't have to deal with them again so soon.

 

Also, another possibility, if you do not have a reputation with the Followers of the Apocalypse then it would cost a fee to get the Specialist training for Psychiatric health but if you are a Member of them from having helped Julie Farkas then Usanagi would say something like "You are one of us now, and that training would reach more people out there with you wandering the wastes, by all means"

 

Those are my current thoughts, I am now off to look at Devin's work.

[devinpatterson]

I got to say, there was nothing to do there or see (like Honest Hearts). Even if you respawn the ghost people it's still a little boring once you've explored everything. I got the impression that Christine stayed to make sure that the Sierra Madre was not used by people like Elijah so the only way to get her to leave would be if the Sierra Madre was gone.

 

Yeah I agree with you. In the vanilla game it's pretty much a dead end. But I think both are rich resources for modders. This is kind of a tangent, but honest hearts especially has huge potential because of the accessible size of the world space and the tribes. But even dead money has ample room for expansion. I don't want to close that off, and honestly I think Christine would leave as long as the vault isn't an issue. So I don't think we need to shut down dead money itself to kick the plot into gear.

 

As for the auto-docs, that is true, but lonesome road has pretty advanced tech as well. However, if you want to stick with OWB,

 

I'd like to (stick with OWB), simply to limit the scope of the mod. I think we actually have a lot of potential play time just with dead money and OWB.

 

I'm going to copy a portion of the Villa (hopefully today, since I ended up with a day off) for one of the new locations. I might add a little something in terms of a new model or actor, but it will probably be 99% vanilla dead money. I thought we could have 2 new locatinos (smallish, maybe 15 or 20 minutes of exploration).

 

The first would be a villa district & would house a armory and contain some C-4 and a few dead money weapons (not a monty haul) along with a bunch of civilian police items worth squat.

 

The second location would contain mining equipment (our focus being on the TNT) that was used in the resorts excavation and be located just outside the villa. Scatter some heavy construction equipment on top (maybe some protectron construction bots) and some small caves/tunnels complex below. Probably partially filled with the toxic cloud. I don't remember any caves/tunnels in dead money, so that will be a nice change. Once the player has hit enough mining supply crates to recover X amount of TNT his/her job there is finished. Maybe make a mutated deathclaw sub species that has adapted to the cloud down there, it'd be an interesting visual effect if I could cloth/envelope them in their own little toxic cloud.

 

If we need more play time than that, we could require a key for each (armory & mining) that might be in Sinclair personal suites (a smallish addon, 1 floor in the Sierra Madre), and the mining foreman's casa. But I think we'll probably have plenty of play time without it. Although Sinclair's suite might be worthwhile just as a player home away from home......

 

Then once we hit OWB, there's tons of adventure time, with the multiple quests to restore Christine. So to sum up, I think we've got plenty to potentially do without adding lonesome road.

 

But yeah, that's what I'm thinking for the dead money side of things. Any additional ideas, refinements etc post em and we'll see if we can get this mod up and running.

 

there is no reason why you can't make the quest involve bringing an upgraded auto-doc with you so that the clinic will have a permanent upgrade.

 

It's an interesting idea to keep in mind. Or possibly bring it to the lucky 38? But it's a little bit more of a side quest at this point, peripheral to the big chores of fixing up Christine. I think what Kataspie was getting at with the clinic, was mostly focused on psychological healing.

 

and considering what those two have been through, they deserve it.

 

Couldn't agree more. If we find a voice actress, I think it would really add to the experience if we could write up some dialog for the companion portion of the mod (when the adventure is over), that will reference BOS and on their shared history. I think we could also use the two person poses, that way they can be holding hands, exchange a quick kiss etc when accompanying the player. I'v never used two person poses, but if it's do-able it would really reinforce their relationship.

Edited August 7, 2012 by devinpatterson

[devinpatterson]

Sorry for the delay, yes life did get in the way. About my testosterone, it is medical, no one is exactly sure why it went up. As there doesn't seem to be an obvious physical cause, at the moment.

 

I had a friend who's hair just started falling out, until she was practically bald. It grew back and all, but her doctors never did figure out what caused it. The body can do some weird things....is your condition stabilized now?

 

It also occurred to me from what Darkus said, that if you wanted to link the Sierra Madre and OWB then you could make it so that the last quest involving Christine is an upgrade for the Transportal Ponder that allows one to travel not only to Big Mountain but the Sierra Madre as well.

 

Sure, I don't think that's a problem at all. We could make a little menu that pops up when it's fired and have OWB as one entry and dead money as the second. Maybe have it send you to the fountain.

 

 

Also, another thing occurred to me. As a way of getting a droid body for Dala but not touching the Institute of the Commonwealth, you could say that Repconn Headquarters commissioned a female droid body for its museum "take highway 93 up".

 

I like your idea of a android, particularly the fallout 3 type android. They are far more human than typical androids in fiction. They feel, they breathe, they eat, they bleed etc. I think, in all the fallout universe there's nothing else quite like them. It's a perfect match for Dala. She'd be ecstatic in that kind of body, probably engaging in countless hours of "formology" I'm sure. I just didn't want to try portraying the institute....I couldn't do it justice, and it's scope would probably be bigger than the whole mod were discussing here.

 

But androids escape....not often but it happens. Lets take that idea and run with it. I think we all know what androids the FO3 version was based on, ala Bladerunner. But lets make it a android that does justice to Roy Batty, " With an A Physical Level (superhuman strength & endurance) and an A Mental Level (genius level intellect), he is probably the most dangerous of all the fugitive replicants." plus make it a real challenge for the player that has to be earned. Not a cakewalk like Harkness, who is just slightly above a capable human. Assume Harkness was nexus 6, but not a combat model.

 

There's a little back story in the bladerunner wiki that fits well with what we're shooting for. "Batty is one of a series of replicants based on a mercenary of the same name. The template for these replicants suffered from "neural malformation," which made them unable to experience fear. This, it is suggested, might be one of the reasons replicants of this particular series were so difficult to kill." So although this androids template was female (to facilitate it's use for Dala) she could suffer from teh same personality disorder.

 

Her template (the original), may also suffer from other shortcomings that would be an advantage for a mercenary. Like ruthlessness, lack of empathy etc, all things that the institute would find useful in a combat android. But that's a two edged sword, and if the combat models break their programming, those traits are brought to bear on their creators. Besides a good bit of history for our story line, someone like that is likely to be potential threat to everyone. I think a pc with good karma would be at least somewhat justified in killing her (since essentially placing Dala's consciousness in her body is murder). Otherwise, without angle that the android is evil/bad karma, good karma character may be either locked out of the android story line (which would suck) or have to find some alternative solution. And it's pretty hard to convince some one to give up their body....maybe offer some sort of brain bot (robobrain, thinktank or humonoid brainbot) in return, to house the androids consciousness so the android won't be hunted by the institute, or have a greatly extended lifespan?

 

Of course we can make it much more ambiguous (in famous fallout style) if the player actually engages her in dialog and learns it's not quite so black and white. She may be a textbook sociopath but she has valid reasons for wanting to escape the institute and her existence as a slave, to live her shortened lifespan to the fullest. Then the player can decide that moral quagmire.

 

Actually, if it's OK with you Kataspie, I'd like to fold the whole android story line into my Old World Blues Expanded mod. It and the shared think tank dreamscape will be the two most original, interesting ideas of the mod.

 

Anyway the point of my rambling is we should keep your original idea of institute androids, but just duck the actual institute adventure part. We can put the android that's on the run anywhere we want, someone that capable would have very few limits.

 

Another option, when retrieving the undamaged voice module for Dr 8....copy of one of the Ulysses/Christine Holotapes.. & with Christine being claustrophobic from the Sierra Madre Auto Doc, you could then get specialist training from Usanagi for the psychiatric treatment....then it would cost a fee.....

 

Sounds good

 

Those are my current thoughts, I am now off to look at Devin's work.

 

Not a whole lot there at the moment, I'm afraid. The things I'm proudest of, are currently works in progress.

[Kataspie]

Devin, I just wanted to say, that the idea of the droids having the same personality disorder as the ones they are based on is awesome. Also, yeah, my testosterone has basically stablised thanks to spiractin.

 

Also, Considering I lack the skills to actually make a mod (I only have the skills for editing other people for my own use at the moment. Hence no files uploaded by me) you have my full permission to use any ideas we discuss for OWB Expanded.

 

Sorry for the delay, yes life did get in the way. About my testosterone, it is medical, no one is exactly sure why it went up. As there doesn't seem to be an obvious physical cause, at the moment.

 

I had a friend who's hair just started falling out, until she was practically bald. It grew back and all, but her doctors never did figure out what caused it. The body can do some weird things....is your condition stabilized now?

 

It also occurred to me from what Darkus said, that if you wanted to link the Sierra Madre and OWB then you could make it so that the last quest involving Christine is an upgrade for the Transportal Ponder that allows one to travel not only to Big Mountain but the Sierra Madre as well.

 

Sure, I don't think that's a problem at all. We could make a little menu that pops up when it's fired and have OWB as one entry and dead money as the second. Maybe have it send you to the fountain.

 

 

Also, another thing occurred to me. As a way of getting a droid body for Dala but not touching the Institute of the Commonwealth, you could say that Repconn Headquarters commissioned a female droid body for its museum "take highway 93 up".

 

I like your idea of a android, particularly the fallout 3 type android. They are far more human than typical androids in fiction. They feel, they breathe, they eat, they bleed etc. I think, in all the fallout universe there's nothing else quite like them. It's a perfect match for Dala. She'd be ecstatic in that kind of body, probably engaging in countless hours of "formology" I'm sure. I just didn't want to try portraying the institute....I couldn't do it justice, and it's scope would probably be bigger than the whole mod were discussing here.

 

But androids escape....not often but it happens. Lets take that idea and run with it. I think we all know what androids the FO3 version was based on, ala Bladerunner. But lets make it a android that does justice to Roy Batty, " With an A Physical Level (superhuman strength & endurance) and an A Mental Level (genius level intellect), he is probably the most dangerous of all the fugitive replicants." plus make it a real challenge for the player that has to be earned. Not a cakewalk like Harkness, who is just slightly above a capable human. Assume Harkness was nexus 6, but not a combat model.

 

There's a little back story in the bladerunner wiki that fits well with what we're shooting for. "Batty is one of a series of replicants based on a mercenary of the same name. The template for these replicants suffered from "neural malformation," which made them unable to experience fear. This, it is suggested, might be one of the reasons replicants of this particular series were so difficult to kill." So although this androids template was female (to facilitate it's use for Dala) she could suffer from teh same personality disorder.

 

Her template (the original), may also suffer from other shortcomings that would be an advantage for a mercenary. Like ruthlessness, lack of empathy etc, all things that the institute would find useful in a combat android. But that's a two edged sword, and if the combat models break their programming, those traits are brought to bear on their creators. Besides a good bit of history for our story line, someone like that is likely to be potential threat to everyone. I think a pc with good karma would be at least somewhat justified in killing her (since essentially placing Dala's consciousness in her body is murder). Otherwise, without angle that the android is evil/bad karma, good karma character may be either locked out of the android story line (which would suck) or have to find some alternative solution. And it's pretty hard to convince some one to give up their body....maybe offer some sort of brain bot (robobrain, thinktank or humonoid brainbot) in return, to house the androids consciousness so the android won't be hunted by the institute, or have a greatly extended lifespan?

 

Of course we can make it much more ambiguous (in famous fallout style) if the player actually engages her in dialog and learns it's not quite so black and white. She may be a textbook sociopath but she has valid reasons for wanting to escape the institute and her existence as a slave, to live her shortened lifespan to the fullest. Then the player can decide that moral quagmire.

 

Actually, if it's OK with you Kataspie, I'd like to fold the whole android story line into my Old World Blues Expanded mod. It and the shared think tank dreamscape will be the two most original, interesting ideas of the mod.

 

Anyway the point of my rambling is we should keep your original idea of institute androids, but just duck the actual institute adventure part. We can put the android that's on the run anywhere we want, someone that capable would have very few limits.

 

Another option, when retrieving the undamaged voice module for Dr 8....copy of one of the Ulysses/Christine Holotapes.. & with Christine being claustrophobic from the Sierra Madre Auto Doc, you could then get specialist training from Usanagi for the psychiatric treatment....then it would cost a fee.....

 

Sounds good

 

Those are my current thoughts, I am now off to look at Devin's work.

 

Not a whole lot there at the moment, I'm afraid. The things I'm proudest of, are currently works in progress.

[darkus37]

As far as I know, the vault is sealed off after you escape from it. I even tested it and it doesn't work anymore. This is because Sinclair made it a security precaution to protect Vera from the war. It also doesn't appear to contain that much tech within to justify protecting it. I understood that the holo tech, the machines that make the toxic cloud, the ghost people armor, and the replicators were the reason Christine stayed behind. That stuff is all over the place. That's why I used the "everything is destroyed" decision.

 

I see you guys are dead set on using OWB in some fashion, be my guests. I personally believe you should the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle, but whatever. You should keep in mind that you are assuming access to both OWB and Dead Money. While I'm sure most people have both mods, that should be something for you to consider. Also, you don't really get access to go back and forth from BigMT until you get the transportalponder. BTW, the mod I was referring to about the transportalponder can be found here.

 

Last, but not least, may I offer my best wishes for you to get well quickly Kataspie.

[Kataspie]

 

 

Last, but not least, may I offer my best wishes for you to get well quickly Kataspie.

Thank You.

[devinpatterson]

Devin, I just wanted to say, that the idea of the droids having the same personality disorder as the ones they are based on is awesome.

 

I like that one too, because we get to give them human failings, motivations, etc.

 

Also, yeah, my testosterone has basically stablised thanks to spiractin.

 

Good deal, hopefully your physician(s) get to teh root of the problem and you have a quick recovery soon :thumbsup:

 

you have my full permission to use any ideas we discuss for OWB Expanded.

 

Excellent, I think that story line with Dala is exactly the type of character expansion I'm shooting for in the mod

 

As far as I know, the vault is sealed off after you escape from it. .......It also doesn't appear to contain that much tech .......stuff is all over... That's why I used the "everything is destroyed" decision.

 

Well keep in mind the vault is the focus of all of dead money and Elijah's obsession. I understand your point of view re: the vault's lack of tech, but remember it's the legend, not necessarily the reality that was driving Elijah. Unrelated note, but did anyone find it odd that the vault was supposed to be the last refuge, but there's really not even a suite or any type of living space?

 

....holo tech, the machines that make the toxic cloud, the ghost people armor,

 

All the tech you mentioned was actually developed in OWB, that's where the knowledge exists.

 

reason Christine stayed behind

 

Actually according to the slides as "Sierra Madre's warden", but I think Kataspie's take on it is solid for several reasons. 1. it involves a task for the players to complete (blowing up the elevator) as part of earning your companion. 2. it's a reasonable creative license to assume that if the vault is out of the question Christine wouldn't be tied to dead money.

 

Plus I'm not going to close off a whole dlc, we have few enough worldspaces/locals as it is. So in the interest of time, lets focus on just destroying the vault (as opposed to the whole dlc) and that way we can direct our energies toward making a great mod.

 

 

I see you guys are dead set on using OWB in some fashion, be my guests. I personally believe you should the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle, but whatever.

 

I can certainly understand where your coming from, but really it's the story that chose OWB. It's where Christine was changed into what she is now. It's where the tech is at that did it, and the most medically advanced tech available to cure her.

 

assuming access to both OWB and Dead Money.....you don't really get access to go back and forth from BigMT until you get the transportalponder.

 

Yeah it can be tricky anytime you use a DLC as a setting because some characters won't have started or completed it.

 

I think we've got great material for OWB, but I could use ideas on the dead money side.

 

I think to go along with the little deathclaw nest (in the area that has the construction equipment and blasting/demolitions) I thought of a ghost deathclaw trapper and a ghost deathclaw hunter. The trapper has much larger traps (3x the size of a man trap) that is made to cripple and trap a deathclaw at what is (I think) it's weakest points...it's legs.

 

On humans this actually traps them (still do combat, but can't leave the spot) and then the trapper or hunter emerge to finish of the player. Once the ghost people are dispatched you can pry open the trap. It will give a little bit different play mechanic, but is really just a one trick pony. The first time will be panic, after that it'll pale.

 

So any ideas for dead money, send them my way.

[devinpatterson]

Oh also Quetzlsacatanango gave us permission to use his Companion mod Reunited And It Feels So Good which includes Christine. So hopefully that will speed things up as well.

[Kataspie]

Awesome about the permission for the reunited mod. Just wanted to let you know if I seem slow in answering or flaky it is only because I'm trying not to let a bout of depression get to me too much. Hence my stronger meds to help me keep my cool.