darkus37 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Alright devinpatterson, there's no point in arguing the point. You have already made your decision. You want to blow up the vault, again, fine. But there is nothing in the vault to justify what you want to do. There is no apparent central power plant the powers the whole Sierra Madre area, or ZAX computer or anything of the sort. I would understand if there was, say an underworks that can be destroyed and thus shutting down the holograms, cloud machines, matter replicators, and the ghost people but there isn't. If however that is what you want, will you then disable these objects (i.e. leave the cloud since it will eventually dissipate, but remove any of the FX showing the vents producing it, all holograms gone and their emitters blown up, the replicators replaced with burned out husks). That, or maybe a replacement warden of some sort that will work to shut the place down over time. As for the BigMT connection - fine. So her mind, scalp, voice box, and hair need to be repaired. You're probably going to have to make a quest to remove the junk around the auto-doc in Y-17 medical facility and add a new NPC who will be her doctor. Also, there should be a way to get the Mr. Handy's to be neutral or allied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devinpatterson Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 You want to blow up the vault, again, fine. But there is nothing in the vault to justify what you want to do. No nothing canon, didn't mean to give you the impression I was arguing it was...my mistake if I wasn't clear. It's what I was referring to with a "little creative" license that Kataspie came up with. But I think it works well. Gives us a little something to do on two levels. One a little bit of run and gun (collecting the explosives), and two being the agent of change that gets the ball rolling with Christine. Plus almost everyone will see it as very believable since the whole quest of dead money was Elijah's obsession with teh vault. If however that is what you want, will you then disable these objects (i.e. leave the cloud since it will eventually dissipate, but remove any of the FX showing the vents producing it, all holograms gone and their emitters blown up, the replicators replaced with burned out husks). That, or maybe a replacement warden of some sort that will work to shut the place down over time. I'm kind of leaning against that. The tech of dead money is really irrelevant to Christine's motivation for staying as the warden. Dead money's secrets guard themselves, so to speak. And I don't want to radically change the essential nature of dead money per se, just get Christine moving along our quests. Blowing up the elevator shaft is just a convenient and simple little plot to get things moving. The other part of the equation is I still want this (dead money), to always be a draw for her, so that Veronica and her love will have a "single season". Each will be drawn back to their respective duties, making this short time together even more precious. Caveat: unless Veronica has chosen to leave the brotherhood, then the story spins completely different. I'll check the quest variable. You're probably going to have to make a quest to remove the junk around the auto-doc in Y-17 medical facility and add a new NPC who will be her doctor. Also, there should be a way to get the Mr. Handy's to be neutral or allied. That's a good idea, maybe a new dr. orderly (add neuro sugreon to his long list of professional degrees). My initial thought was to recover the holotape of the experimental operation and bring it back to old saw bones in the sink. But there's all kinds of ways this could go. I'm also thinking we should have something different for the hair, seems a little overboard to go with the equivalent of a implant that injects rogain daily. Plus I think for the hair quest I want to spin it with a humorous angle. Making it a chemical or some such, that goes wrong and initially ends in a viscous halo/fro that looks like Christine has 10000's of volts running through her. She'll eventually get her real hair back, but at the expense of a little humor. Keep the ideas coming, I appreciate it. The variation on the COS hit squad, especially is already paying creative dividends in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkus37 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The default Veronica quest line wouldn't apply here because before, all Veronica had was the BOS. She was angry that they split up her and Christine and that they turtled themselves away instead of being proactive in a positive nature. By reintroducing Christine as a variable, her end slides no longer apply in the same way since she can be with Christine and hopefully be happy together, sort of a have-her-cake-and-eat-it-too situation, especially if you forge an alliance with the NCR and BOS. If nothing else, please DON"T make this a temporary romance. How about, you get someone who speaks another language, like German or Spanish to record/write out a small amount of speech that she will say the first time you try and switch back Christine's mind, sort of like hitting the ESP option on a TV. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devinpatterson Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The default Veronica quest line wouldn't apply here because before, all Veronica had was the BOS. She was angry that they split up her and Christine and that they turtled themselves away instead of being proactive in a positive nature. By reintroducing Christine as a variable, her end slides no longer apply in the same way since she can be with Christine and hopefully be happy together, sort of a have-her-cake-and-eat-it-too situation, especially if you forge an alliance with the NCR and BOS. Oh I'm not going to be delving into that in this mod. I was just thinking out loud that her choice at the end of "I could make you care" would determine the ultimate fate of Christine and Veronica's relationship. They are both so strongly tied to their respective duties. Of course if Veronica is cut free (chose to leave the BOS etc) then I can totally see her in dead money with Christine. With teh followers choice I'm iffy, I could see it going either way, because she most likely wouldn't have the same commitment as she did to the BOS. If she chose to stay with teh BOS then they will lead separate lives in the end, fulfilling their duty at the expense of their happiness. Veronica won't be able to give up her duty, nor will Christine and they would continue as in canon. So I'd determine that by what the player encouraged Veronica to choose. Remember they are no longer children, the choice to be together, has been their's for a while. Each chose to continue their respective duty (Veronica BOS, Christine COS), this is simply a "chance to begin again" as befits the Sierra Madre. But all of the above are just musings, it won't bear on the mod we're making. If nothing else, please DON"T make this a temporary romance. Temporary in the same way Veronica's travels with the Courier is temporary. Remember how Veronica (at the end of the I could make you care quest) replies to the player's question of will you still travel with me. And I'm paraphrasing here....that she wants to keep traveling with teh player for now, she has her whole life to serve with the brotherhood. Same thing. Veronica's (depending on her choice at the end of the quest) fate lies with the BOS, but not until she's done accompanying the player (ie sometime in the indeterminate future). Christine won't be leaving in this mod, but her ultimate fate remains the same....one day she will return to dead money and be it's warden.....it's just outside the scope of this mod. How about, you get someone who speaks another language, like German or Spanish to record/write out a small amount of speech that she will say the first time you try and switch back Christine's mind, sort of like hitting the ESP option on a TV. :) Sounds good, it certainly fits. Or maybe backwards speech? A little aside, but if your a farscape fan and heard Aeryn speaking her language natively, it sounded very exotic, (with the clipped syllables and abrupt consonants). That was just her speech played backwards. We really need a voice actress to make this mod shine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkus37 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I did watch Farscape, but it's been a while. I do know what you're talking about, however. Oh, and I finally remembered where I got that idea . Since you're already taking creative license with the ending, why not change it further - it doesn't matter if Veronica sides for or against the BOS, just make the ending be what you want or just separate it so that the PC get several options on whether to convince Christine to go for a renewed relationship or to find new love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devinpatterson Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Oh, and I finally remembered where I got that idea Cute segment, never watched the sequels all the way through, just pieces and parts. Gonna have to check it out sometime. Right now, I'm just trying to finish up all my outstanding mod requests so I have Sunday to work on larger projects. Like your mod, and some of the ideas I'v floated in this forum. Since you're already taking creative license with the ending, why not change it further - it doesn't matter if Veronica sides for or against the BOS, just make the ending be what you want or just separate it so that the PC get several options on whether to convince Christine to go for a renewed relationship or to find new love. I like working as closely to lore as possible (well most of the time, sometimes it can really jack up a otherwise outstanding idea), after all the history of the characters is what gives us insight into who they really are. The thing with Veronica and the BOS is they are such a big part of her. For instance say you'v achieved a peace treaty with the NCR, Veronica is one of the BOS's leading outside contacts, and suddenly she becomes even more indispensable. Whereas if she's left the BOS she's footloose and fancy free (and probably even more in dire need of Christine's comfort, since the BOS was her world). So long story short, decisions should matter, and they should impact the future. Plus I think players appreciate it when their choices affect the game world. But if I/we ever did extend the mod (which I really can't imagine would happen) to include the future aspects we're discussing here, I would definitely include player input to affect their choices. The one caveat is we may have to do that anyway because of potential dismissals. For instance can you dismiss on without dismissing the other? That, in my mind, would be a very hard sell. But more important if you dismiss both, do they head back to the BOS area, the Sierra Madre or do they split up? It forces the decision much earlier. So I guess in that case I'd go with what I outlined above, the "I could make you care quest determining their destination(s) separately or together. But not right away. I'd put a big timer on it (weeks maybe months) before they head to their choices. That way if the player wants to rehire them before the timer expires they will be together. Although I'm not really sure where they would hang out together, before that timer hits 0. I get the impression the COS isn't very welcome in the BOS (and vice versa), but I could be completely wrong about that. I think it's unlikely they would want to spend a lovers weekend in the Sierra Madre, arguably the worst possible resort on earth. Maybe have them wander the Mojave? Dont' know..... But we do have to figure it out. it would be a heartless move to dismiss them, but some players will, so that option has to be put together. Edited August 11, 2012 by devinpatterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkus37 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 How about if Christine joins up with Veronica, then they count as one companion, i.e. if you hire one, you get both. Christine is a sniper, Veronica is a brawler. Together, they activate a perk called Love Conquers All (not the final title, just an idea). This perk gives them more life, damage, and if one is wounded to below, say 50%, they get a massive boost in those skills (or more), kind of like in movies where if a loved one is in danger, the other person goes berserk and kills everyone. They're default location if fired would be the abandoned BOS bunker. If you do not get them to be in a relationship again, then Christine will have a perk, say Hardened Heart, that gives her more damage, but less armor/life i.e. like she has a death-wish. She will then be found in the BOS bunker alone. You can then have a terminal in the BOS bunker with a terminal entry, depending on your choices. For example, if you help the elder, make peace with the NCR, and Veronica's quest, then Christine can come and go as she is recognized as "den mother" of the abandoned BOS bunker. If you replaced the elder, and let him run amok, then there is approximately a 10% chance that a COS hit squad will try and kill Christine and she can't enter the bunker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaultPi Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 hmmm would it be too evil to send them Arcade so that the good doctor who never gets a good ending either could try and fix things over at the casino/villa maybe run an autodoc filled clinic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkus37 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Evil, no. But considering that I like to keep all my companions at least available, that would run into the same problem as having Christine as the Sierra Madre's warden, i.e. not leaving due to their role as guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devinpatterson Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 How about if Christine joins up with Veronica, then they count as one companion, i.e. if you hire one, you get both. Yeah might have to, it'd be tough to separate them. But yeah we can have one actor as the target of a follow package, not a problem. Together, they activate a perk called Love Conquers All (not the final title, just an idea). This perk gives them I *believe* that all sounds do-able, I took a quick look at the ferocious loyalty script and it doesn't look difficult at first glance. . They're default location if fired would be the abandoned BOS bunker. It's not a bad spot, being abandoned, but if the BOS is hostile or even fairly negative to the COS, it's not a good spot. Veronica also has that hidden shack (it's a s-hole though) that she used to contact Elijah (might have been around gibson scrapyard, can't remember). I don't know....it'd be interesting if they wandered but a real PITA for the player to track them down. Lets hold hte abandoned bunker in reserve and see if we can come up with a safer more neutral spot for both of them. If you do not get them to be in a relationship again, then Christine will have a perk, say Hardened Heart, that gives her more damage, but less armor/life i.e. like she has a death-wish. She will then be found in the BOS bunker alone. Yeah the perk makes sense, sounds good. But if she's not in a relationship with Veronica it's because her and/or Veronica's duty called, so I think she'd end up at dead money. Or did you mean just temporarily, until the timer counts down? then Christine can come and go as she is recognized as "den mother" of the abandoned BOS bunker......10% chance that a COS hit squad will try and kill Christine and she can't enter the bunker. Maybe, I need to see how the two factions relate to each other, gotta check out the COS when I get these requests done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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