Internet Trolling...should it be a criminal offence

[Syco21]

As my favourite oblivion npc, Glarthir would have said "Who would ever suspect the outstanding freedom of speech"

You realize you're advocating for that exactly which you stated you were against, correct?

 

Firstly, freedom of speech is just a concept, that in reality barely exists. When people were creating the concept, they were concerned with having a voice, being able to stick it to the man, being able to express malcontent and disapproval. Those pioneers certainly did not imagine freedom of speech, as a tool to beat up on the vulnerable or too post cruel stuff on the tribute sites of dead people.

Ugh, these arguments... :wallbash:

 

Pretty sure that, when the founders wrote the 4th amendment, they didn't want blatantly obvious criminal scumbags to use it as get out of jail free card because Officer Jackass couldn't follow the rules. Yet they didn't add "unless they're obviously guilty" to the amendment. Why? Because it would have rendered the amendment meaningless. We have rights, unfortunately that means scummy people can abuse those rights, but that was a risk the founders deemed acceptable.

 

Secondly, freedom of speech is a two way process, which people seem to overlook. The troll under the umbrella of free speech, has the right to be as vile as they wish. But then the victim also has freedom of speech, and has equal rights to respond to the troll, as they wish. So in the case of extreme trolling, the troll can post hurtful and disgusting posts on the victims' social media/email etc, but with an anti-trolling law in place, the victim has equal right to get the troll punished under the law.

And this is basically just "well, you have the freedom to say what you want unless I don't like what you're saying." The argument that "sure, you can say those things, it is your right. But if we don't like it, you're going to jail" is just plain stupid and utterly destroys the meaning of a right.

 

Trolls do thrive on negativity, and they are often clever individuals who can get under peoples' skin. But if extreme trolling were a criminal offense, would they thrive having to watch their asses in prison, because they posted sick stuff on dead childrens' tribute sites.

As many, many people have already pointed out. The most extreme cases of 'trolling' is already illegal. But nearly impossible to enforce. This isn't just an issue of free speech. It's also an issue of privacy and other civil rights that will be violated in the name of "the war on trolls." It's just like the "war on drugs" and the "war on terror." You really want another excuse for the government to track everything you do and say? To monitor your every move?

 

As for the Westboro Baptist church, and this will not surprise you, I think they should be roundly condemned for saying "God loves dead soldiers". The slope need only be as slippery as the public allow it to be.

By making laws forbidden a certain type of behavior online, you will create a demand for the ability to enforce those laws. That wiwll just lead to more violations of our rights.

[saadus]

So, I now have to be careful about what I say? What I type? Just because I 'might' offend someone? That it could now be a crime? I am sorry but...what part of that is NOT wrong? Someone hurt your feelings with a INTERNET COMMENT! A twit or even a Facebook post. How sad is it that we have become so sensitive that we cannot bare to hear anything mean or cruel?

 

This is utterly ridiculous. This is the kind of stuff that just shatters all faith in common sense. Someone, please explain to me why this is a good idea and why it should not be shot down immediately? Seriously, please tell me why we have the right to monitor what people say.

[JimboUK]

So, I now have to be careful about what I say? What I type? Just because I 'might' offend someone? That it could now be a crime? I am sorry but...what part of that is NOT wrong? Someone hurt your feelings with a INTERNET COMMENT! A twit or even a Facebook post. How sad is it that we have become so sensitive that we cannot bare to hear anything mean or cruel?

 

This is utterly ridiculous. This is the kind of stuff that just shatters all faith in common sense. Someone, please explain to me why this is a good idea and why it should not be shot down immediately? Seriously, please tell me why we have the right to monitor what people say.

 

All the law does is let someone wronged obtain the identity of the troll so they can pursue civil action in the courts, trolling isn't being made illegal. It's still a worthless law for the reasons people have already stated.

[marharth]

Anonymity may be the biggest defense of a troll, but it is also the biggest defense of the person being trolled.

 

What if a troll provoked someone to the point where the victim would fall under the law?

 

What if the troll got into a law suit just to get more information on their victim?

[mizdarby]

Anonymity may be the biggest defense of a troll, but it is also the biggest defense of the person being trolled.

 

What if a troll provoked someone to the point where the victim would fall under the law?

 

What if the troll got into a law suit just to get more information on their victim?

Valid points.

[scottym23]

I think everyone who uses the internet should be aware to some degree the simple truth that anonymity gives people confidence. If they have an opinion or a comment they want to share with someone but don't have the courage to do it, hiding behind a mask is a sure fire way to give the "trolls" the confidence they need. In this case it's the internet being the proverbial mask. The point people posting on this topic seem to be missing is that these laws may not give people the appropriate means to take action against the "trolls", it brings us one step closer to unmasking them. This is a huge step in the fight against them because if you remove the mask completely (proverbially of course) then they show themselves as a person. They lose their confidence and don't say their true and disgusting feelings/comments they'd otherwise post. I am all for this law and hope that they continue to push on with this course of action.

[marharth]

I think everyone who uses the internet should be aware to some degree the simple truth that anonymity gives people confidence. If they have an opinion or a comment they want to share with someone but don't have the courage to do it, hiding behind a mask is a sure fire way to give the "trolls" the confidence they need. In this case it's the internet being the proverbial mask. The point people posting on this topic seem to be missing is that these laws may not give people the appropriate means to take action against the "trolls", it brings us one step closer to unmasking them. This is a huge step in the fight against them because if you remove the mask completely (proverbially of course) then they show themselves as a person. They lose their confidence and don't say their true and disgusting feelings/comments they'd otherwise post. I am all for this law and hope that they continue to push on with this course of action.

Read my previous post.

 

Removing anonymity is a terrible idea.

[scottym23]

I think everyone who uses the internet should be aware to some degree the simple truth that anonymity gives people confidence. If they have an opinion or a comment they want to share with someone but don't have the courage to do it, hiding behind a mask is a sure fire way to give the "trolls" the confidence they need. In this case it's the internet being the proverbial mask. The point people posting on this topic seem to be missing is that these laws may not give people the appropriate means to take action against the "trolls", it brings us one step closer to unmasking them. This is a huge step in the fight against them because if you remove the mask completely (proverbially of course) then they show themselves as a person. They lose their confidence and don't say their true and disgusting feelings/comments they'd otherwise post. I am all for this law and hope that they continue to push on with this course of action.

Read my previous post.

 

Removing anonymity is a terrible idea.

 

Pardon me if I sound a bit harsh or come off rude, but are you serious? 90% of trolls are kids 15 and under just spewing random hate so that their friends think they're cool. Another 9.99% are people who may be older but have low self esteem and have to gain confidence by making others feel bad over the internet. There are so few "trolls" that would actually go about, what exactly, "trolling" someone in real life? What, send them some hateful mail or something is what you're referring to them doing once they have the person's personal identity? I would say 99% of the time the troll is more afraid to have their own personal identity revealed than the victim.

[Syco21]

Pardon me if I sound a bit harsh or come off rude, but are you serious? 90% of trolls are kids 15 and under just spewing random hate so that their friends think they're cool. Another 9.99% are people who may be older but have low self esteem and have to gain confidence by making others feel bad over the internet. There are so few "trolls" that would actually go about, what exactly, "trolling" someone in real life? What, send them some hateful mail or something is what you're referring to them doing once they have the person's personal identity? I would say 99% of the time the troll is more afraid to have their own personal identity revealed than the victim.

What is your name, your full name? Your address? Your phone number?

[mizdarby]

Pardon me if I sound a bit harsh or come off rude, but are you serious? 90% of trolls are kids 15 and under just spewing random hate so that their friends think they're cool. Another 9.99% are people who may be older but have low self esteem and have to gain confidence by making others feel bad over the internet. There are so few "trolls" that would actually go about, what exactly, "trolling" someone in real life? What, send them some hateful mail or something is what you're referring to them doing once they have the person's personal identity? I would say 99% of the time the troll is more afraid to have their own personal identity revealed than the victim.

What is your name, your full name? Your address? Your phone number?

Under the proposed anti-trolling legislation, the anonymity of the troller would only be revealed to the victim/s of his/her trolling activities, and only if the legal bodies consider a case worthy enough to allow civil action. The threat to the anonymity of the overwhelmingly massive percentage of internet users is zero.

Well considered and thoughtful posts, such as Syco21 or scottym23 have made in this debate, would in no way be considered as a act of trolling under any proposed legislation changes, hence personal details would remain protected just as they are under current legislation.

To me its' all a matter of balance, protecting the anonymity of the internet user, against the rights of those unfortunate individuals who have suffered abuse at the hands of trollers. The real world works like that, ordinary people remain faceless individuals, unless they do something which is considered harmless to their community, and then they get named and shamed. So I am in favour of tougher anti-trolling laws, especially in the more extreme cases which lead to their targets suffering emotional harm, or even suicidal tendencies.