Anyone else disappointed with the Stormcloak questline?

[TheVampireDante]

Seeing as what is essentially described was the player being caught in the trap set for Ulfric, perhaps they thought the player was some ally or contact that Ulfric was meeting with, or that you were with him to begin with and were trying to cross the border out of Skyrim amongst a group of the legions most wanted.

 

Still doesn't explain why you are dressed in a sack cloth outfit, unless they stripped you of whatever you were wearing before the cart ride to Helgen.

[Lachdonin]

The sack cloth indicates that, before hand, you were either an escaped convict, or a beggar. Since the former would lack not only the cause, but the means to skip across the border, based on what we know of Tamriel, i am personally led to believe that, wherever you come from, the Dragonborn has a rather shady past.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

I appreciate the attempt to explain it BUT, why not execute Ulfric first then if they were "rushing" and it was so important to them? I actually wondered that before thee explanations that they were rushing the execution to prevent Ulfric's escape.

 

Beggars are also often in the same kind of clothing so you might have just been poor.

 

As far as thinking you're an ally of Ulfric's, I feel like that would have been said. They had a horse thief (which in my opinion it isn't relevant that they kill someone for stealing a pencil in another game) so they weren't just killing Stormcloaks and for such petty crimes it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

They could have executed all of those Stormcloaks without killing you or the horse thief so to me, it just seemed like they put too much effort into wanting you to start out hating the Empire. Though this could have been more acceptable to me had they made it clear they thought you and the horse thief were allies of Ulfric.

 

Heck even Hadvar doesn't agree with the notion so that implies that it is obvious that you're not an ally of Ulfric.

 

Also, what about the rest of what I said? Anyone got any insight into/thoughts about that?

[TheVampireDante]

I think Hadvar just doesn't agree with the whole execution thing as a whole, no matter the reason. Even after what he's probably been told about Ulfric personally and what he's seen from fighting the Stormcloaks himself - I get the feeling he'd rather some other form of punishment was dealt, rather than just adding more death to the list.

 

Executing the player: You aren't on the list, your an unknown, she couldn't be bothered with the paperwork or hassle of dealing with you. Simple answer? To the block, class you as a Stormcloak ally, or some other criminal and leave it at that. Your dead, problem solved in her eyes. Even Tullius doesn't seem to take issue with it. Again, not worth his time or attention. Ulfric does notice you though, when he's getting speeched at by Tullius, he looks over at you now and then.

 

Course Lokir (Horse thief) was headed for the block, as I believe that's the punishment for stealing someones Horse, plus - that Officer in charge of the situation seemed all too eager to put the headsman to work.

 

What surprised me really with the introduction - was just how lacking the guard on Ulfric was specifically - There wasn't a single guard in the carriage or near him during the ride (except the cart driver). He could have (bound hands or not) reached up, pulled the gag from his mouth and let loose a shout, at the very least it'd spook the horses and disrupt everything, would give him a chance to run for it again. You'd at least think they'd have had a Horse rider alongside with a sword to his back, just in case.

[fifteenspades]

Okay new question. if they wanted to rush the execution so bad why go through all the formalities? why not just stick a sword through him and the rest and be done with it.
Or... how about executing Ulfric first and not the guy who doesn't have all day.

[TheVampireDante]

Stuck in their ways? Showing off to the people/Thalmor about their orderly conducted way of handling the matter? Annoying Ulfric by making him watch his people (and anyone else) get put to death in front of him?

I think once they actually got him into Helgen they slowed things down again, in their minds they had him caught and at the block, no escape from the town. Of course, they didn't count on a Dragon showing up and making a mess of their event.

 

As for the first guy, well - he did offer himself up for the axe. As was noted by Ralof - he was a defiant Stormcloak right to the end. I actually wanted to see that guy in Sovngarde, would have been funny seeing him sitting in Shor's Hall drinking mead and yelling "I told them I didn't have all day to waste there."

[fifteenspades]

Know what would of been even better? Seeing him in Sovngarde saying that with his head in his hands ;o

and Body still acting all natural. and the other souls just laughing at him "my ancestors are smiling on me"

Yes... yes they are.

[rattlemebones]

What if they player was originally a bandit from Cyrodiil that had been captured, escaped from prison, ran and just had been at the wrong place at the wrong time? The guards may not have known because of horrible communication and just not caring about one bandit that escaped from Cyrodiilic prison.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

Dante, I find your view of Hadvar interesting and possible although it isn't my impression. The way Hadvar talks after the incident (while walking to Riverwood) and even his remarks to Rolaf during the escape gave me the impression that he felt that all of them should be executed and or killed on sight.

 

He also never sounds remorseful at all about Helgen except for in regards to you the player so my thought is that he had no problem with executing the Stormcloaks.

 

I also feel again, that even if they were going to go through formalities or whatever, if Ulfric's death was such a priority that they couldn't be bothered to leave two prisoners in the cart, why would he not be executed first?

 

Okay the one guy offered himself up first, but the Imperials run the show not the prisoners. Basically, I am saying that if I am in Tullius' position (General Tons as it were), when he tried to do that, I would had his motion stopped and said, "You'll get your chance to die soon enough Stormcloak."

 

But even if they wanted to allow the guy his dignity, the next prisoner they call to die is me. Me? You want to execute the person who isn't even on the list BEFORE the guy responsible for the whole uprising? LOL

 

You're right though, he definitely should have been under more guard. All they did was put a cloth over his mouth, which side question here... do you think that would have been sufficient enough to prevent him from shouting? I don't know myself and have no assumptions on it so I am curious about the opinion of others on that one.

 

 

The sack cloth indicates that, before hand, you were either an escaped convict, or a beggar. Since the former would lack not only the cause, but the means to skip across the border, based on what we know of Tamriel, i am personally led to believe that, wherever you come from, the Dragonborn has a rather shady past.

 

I missed this the first go around, but yeah, you could have been a poor person, but then again given Bethesda's fascination with locking peeps up for no reason, I guess I'm with you on the shady past thing. What is up with that? I will die laughing if in the next one we start out as prisoners or someone being accused of a crime or something like that.

 

 

Okay new question. if they wanted to rush the execution so bad why go through all the formalities? why not just stick a sword through him and the rest and be done with it.
Or... how about executing Ulfric first and not the guy who doesn't have all day.

 

Good question, especially since they end up doing that anyways to conclude the Civil War arch. Mind you, that would have made for a boring game, but I do think it could have been executed differently (bad pun intended) to where things would make a bit more sense... at least to me, and maybe the one other person out there that is cursed with thinking like me. :D

[TheVampireDante]

 

Dante, I find your view of Hadvar interesting and possible although it isn't my impression. The way Hadvar talks after the incident (while walking to Riverwood) and even his remarks to Rolaf during the escape gave me the impression that he felt that all of them should be executed and or killed on sight.

 

He also never sounds remorseful at all about Helgen except for in regards to you the player so my thought is that he had no problem with executing the Stormcloaks.

 

 

Hadvar and Ralof both lived in Riverwood, (or at least Ralof had close family there) - so I believe that the two of them would have known each other quite well. When we cross Ralof escaping in Helgen and he's called a traitor, my first thought was that perhaps he - like Hadvar still is - was a Legion man at some point, but switched to follow Ulfric at some point. Hadvar takes his encounter with him a little personally for it to be just due to being a Stormcloak.

 

Later on he obviously has no problem attacking Stormcloaks, but that's a required and standard procedure to tackling a group that you are at war with. Formalized executions? Showboating and just being insulting - if they were that worried about Ulfric escaping, throw him in a steel box and leave him in the dungeons of an Imperial held fort or town somewhere until they could ship him to Cyrodiil. Spread rumours that he'd fled the country or been killed in a skirmish - anything that would disorganize his troop long enough to get him moved.

 

They had him, but didn't know what to do with him afterwards. So they picked the easy route, get him somewhere the population could see him, and take his head.

 

No one could dispute an entire town saying they seen the act, it was a public display. They took his men, and they planned on executing them in front of him to show how powerless he was at that moment. Yourself and the Horse thief - in all likihood, a pair of unfortunates that got caught in the process. Not that anyone on the Imperial side seems to care, with the exception of Hadvar.

 

 

I also feel again, that even if they were going to go through formalities or whatever, if Ulfric's death was such a priority that they couldn't be bothered to leave two prisoners in the cart, why would he not be executed first?

 

Okay the one guy offered himself up first, but the Imperials run the show not the prisoners. Basically, I am saying that if I am in Tullius' position (General Tons as it were), when he tried to do that, I would had his motion stopped and said, "You'll get your chance to die soon enough Stormcloak."

 

 

As I said earlier, they most likely thought they had him completely. A few minutes more wouldn't be a problem. They relaxed, overconfident in their position - for all they knew they'd won.

 

Still, despite the archers, there was a hell of a lot of Stormcloaks standing together. Even without the Dragon, I'm pretty sure a rush attack that while costly in lives, would have had a chance of securing their leader an escape - there was a gate right behind him after all.

 

But even if they wanted to allow the guy his dignity, the next prisoner they call to die is me. Me? You want to execute the person who isn't even on the list BEFORE the guy responsible for the whole uprising? LOL

 

Blind arrogance or sheer stupidity in that one. I blame that officer. I think she just noticed you when looking around (due to seeming out of place) and decided you can take the next turn.

 

You're right though, he definitely should have been under more guard. All they did was put a cloth over his mouth, which side question here... do you think that would have been sufficient enough to prevent him from shouting? I don't know myself and have no assumptions on it so I am curious about the opinion of others on that one.

 

Seeing as - at least in one case - some "shouts" can be whispered (throw voice), I doubt the gag would impede him that much as far as vocal power goes, but it would definitely hinder his pronunciation of the words themselves ( I'd take at guess at it being tied quite tight in over to restrict jaw movement) - so at least in some cases it would render his ability to shout unusable at least partially. Quite a few of the Dragon Shout words are very rough and guttural, so it might not have been impossible to use something. Whether he knew any shouts that could have helped him while gagged is an unknown.

 

I know the game files list him as knowing, I think it's two shouts, but I put that down to being the only two you'd ever see him use in game, lore and background wise he might know more that he never let people know. Still though, his hands were only bound at the wrists, not tied to his waist or behind him - very easy to pull that rag from his mouth enough to give him some ability to speak.