TheObstinateNoviceSmith Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 I think that while rules definitely help to solidify things and reduce the chance of a dispute as to the rightful victor of a contest, that sometimes they just can't prevent a dispute from happening. Take sports for example. There are games that are still contested to this day as to whether the victors truly won or not and or if their victory was indeed fair. In this case, Ulfric shouting him to win was awesome on Bethesda's part because again, it makes sense that different people would see that act differently. It's like, we may disagree on things here, but no one should be saying that the other point of view doesn't make sense and that makes this awesome. It's like technically it wasn't against the rules to use his voice, but then some would argue that a true Nord bests a Nord without the use of such a thing. Both views have merit, and while my characters' minds tended to be made up about the duel (differing of course depending on the character), my personal thoughts never were. Thinking about it now, when fighting for your life technically there's only one rule that has existed since the beginning of time... who ever lives wins so I don't think ill of what Ulfric did. I do however tend to dislike some aspects of his motives regarding that incident. Oh, and I can't remember who said/suggested what, but I am really certain Ulfric knew that Torygg respected him. Ulfric is a very perceptive person. You would have to be to come as far as he has with fighting the Empire and positioning himself to potentially be High King. I could be wrong about that, but naw, I don't think so lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifteenspades Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 It really has nothing to do with the rules of a duel, because it wasn't a duel. According to everyone who saw it, and even Torygg himself. "That is why when Ulfric came to see him in Solitude, Torygg intended to hear more of his arguments for independence with an open mind; neither he nor his court suspected that Ulfric was there to challenge Torygg until it was too late to stop it." "The Empire and a number of the Jarls, however, viewed the killing of Torygg not as the result of an honorable duel, but as murder, due to the fact that Torygg was of a young age while Ulfric was at his prime" If you encounter him in Sovngarde he will tell the player that he feels sorry for his wife, saying "When Ulfric Stormcloak, with savage Shout, sent me here, my sole regret was fair Elisif, left forlorn and weeping. I faced him fearlessly - my fate inescapable, yet my honor is unstained - can Ulfric say the same?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlemebones Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I believe the court of Elisif. They were there when Ulfric "duelled" Torygg", and they saw most everything. I believe a witness over someone who hears a biased account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVampireDante Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 And the words of a grieving widow and her likewise shocked and mourning court aren't going to be biased? Yes, they were there - but every single one of them is by their very nature and position as a member of the Solitude court already makes them against Ulfric for his actions, no matter the reason, intent or how it was carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlemebones Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Yes, it is possible to see something and tell a biased story about it; however, witnessing something and telling a biased story will have more truth then hearing a biased account and telling a embellished account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifteenspades Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 It's like you guys just ignored what Torygg himself said xD Pretty sure he counts as an unbiased view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlemebones Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Well, I would say dead men tell no tales, but it seems TES goes out of its way to invert that. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 It's like you guys just ignored what Torygg himself said xD Pretty sure he counts as an unbiased view. It seems that every dead soul in Sovngarde that hasn't reached the mead hall yet has a certain degree of emo to them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheObstinateNoviceSmith Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Spades, that all sounds like one perspective of what happened. Wasn't there another? That being said, my original post still stands but I appreciate you demonstrating one side of what I meant when I said the event was well done by Bethesda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifteenspades Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Considering that one perspective is of the dead man, it's a pretty legitimate perspective lol And wouldn't you be emo if you died and had to face an afterlife with a god like being eating you for funnsies~ <--idk how to spell As for the Gate keeper who let him out, i am a little confused on this. Why did the gatekeeper know/assume it was a duel?if you go by whiteruns design the Switch for the gate will be somewhere up top, So either A. The Gate keeper witnessed it and as soon as Ulfric killed Torygg he rushed his little self to the gate ( doubtful )B. The Gate keeper witnessed it and just happened to be Usain Bolt ( doubtful )C. The Gate keeper just does w/e he's told because he worships Ulfric/ follows him ( likely )D. The Gate keeper knew Ulfric was there to kill Torygg because it was pre-planned so he was already at the switch to let Ulfric escape ( more then likely )E. The Gate keeper has a man crush ( also more then likely ) too bad it was unrequited love~ worst kind poor gate keeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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