Anyone else disappointed with the Stormcloak questline?

[fraquar]

But... That's not even remotely what the Great War was about.

 

The Thalmor demanded Hammerfell (not just southern Hammerfell) knowing full well they would be refused. They would then have the political leverage to invade the Empire, which is step 1 in destroying the world.

 

It would be more like you telling me to give you $100, knowing i didn't have it to give to you, just because you wanted to justify to yourself that you murdering me was ethical.

So what exactly is the point of saying "lets go". willingly sacrificing thousands upon thousands of lives, only to agree to the very terms you refused? Lets start a war we don't want to fight, so we can surrender to the very terms that are being shoved down our throat? Lets just piss away 10's of thousands of lives for nothing......

 

This wasn't that they didn't have $100, they did and it was called Hammerfell. It's exactly as I described it.

 

Thalmor: We want Hammerfell ($100).

Empire: We have it ($100), but we can't give it to you

Hammerfell (the $100): Your damn skippy, don't even think about it

Thalmor: I guess we have no choice, let the bloodletting begin

 

Later on......

 

Thalmor: Rut roh, what the hell happened at Red Ring?

Empire: We are tired of the bloodshed already, here, have your damned $100. Hope you choke on it

Hammerfell: WTF?

Thalmor: Lol, knew the Empire was spineless. As for those Redguards, damn they are tough

Hammerfell: You get our territory over our dead body

Thalmor: #$%# this, lets settle already - we are gonna move on to an easier target.

Thalmor: Look Empire, we are going to patrol your territory and put to death anyone we see fit

Empire: Who are we to argue? Here's an Embassy in Skyrim, and while you are at it here's an old fort you can use to torture our citizens with. BTW, there is a shrine to Talos right down the road from Riverwood, here - let me mark it on your map.

Thalmor: This is just too damn easy.......

 

The whole "lets surrender so we can rebuild" strategy is a joke, whats the point of rebuilding if they don't have the stomach for the fight to begin with.

Edited October 20, 2013 by fraquar

[empressofminecraftia]

The Civil War of skyrim is not amuseing period i personally belive that a recommended mod for you , if you dislike the stormcloak questline would be Civil War Overhual.

[Simniac]

The only chance the Stormcloaks would have against the Thalmor if Skyrim became independent and no longer involved with the white gold concordat, would be if all of their Nord warriors submitted themselves to Hircine and became werewolves. That's the only chance they would have. Could be an interesting part of the storyline if made into reality though. :)

Edited October 20, 2013 by Simniac

[fifteenspades]

Until they all get silver swords then start swatting werewolfs like flys.

[Simniac]

That's a good point, if they're fighting nothing but werewolves, they'd leave their elven swords and magic behind I guess. :)

[Simniac]

On second thought, it wouldn't matter if they used silver swords unless they were at least 4 against 1. In 1 v 1 combat (or taking them down one by one), a werewolf would send them flying with their power attack, jump on them and tear the flesh from their bones, or just slice them up while standing, and if the werewolves all had the totem of terror howl (or whatever it is called), they would easily get some space when they're surrounded, combining this with working together in groups with excellent team work, the werewolves would easily get the advantage, maybe even no matter how many enemies they were facing, so they would need strategies and planning to take on groups of werewolves. Even if they separated the werewolves, luring them into a large ambush one by one, the werewolves could still rely on their totem of terror howl and take them out while the enemy were fleeing, or retreating back to the group while the enemy were fleeing.

[K9andSmith]

This is all moot anyway, the high kingship of Skyrim as well as the throne of the empire belong to the dragonborn. The kingship is his by rights as the heir of Ysgramor and the empire is his as a dragonborn i.e. a member of the Septim bloodline. Yes I know the Septim line ended with Martin, and the dragonborn is only called Ysgramor's heir once if you do the companions quest line. But if he were to stake his clam on the grounds of a bloodline that can't be disproved and by being called the heir of the Nordic empire by a god like being, not much can undermine that. Not to mention his thum is the strongest on Nern so he's not only dragons blood but champion of the dragons. So with the Nords, empire, blades, Hermaus Mora and dragons backing him the second war between the dominion and the empire his like to be a bloodbath for the elves anyway.

 

P.S. I am aware that all this is hypothetical and does not truly have a baring on the outcome of the civil wars morality. But it begs the questions "does it matter who win or who was right?" If you think about it this is a far more likely outcome than anything else given the nature of dragons. Food for thought.

 

-Joel Barron

[MidevalGuy]

This is all moot anyway, the high kingship of Skyrim as well as the throne of the empire belong to the dragonborn. The kingship is his by rights as the heir of Ysgramor and the empire is his as a dragonborn i.e. a member of the Septim bloodline. Yes I know the Septim line ended with Martin, and the dragonborn is only called Ysgramor's heir once if you do the companions quest line. But if he were to stake his clam on the grounds of a bloodline that can't be disproved and by being called the heir of the Nordic empire by a god like being, not much can undermine that. Not to mention his thum is the strongest on Nern so he's not only dragons blood but champion of the dragons. So with the Nords, empire, blades, Hermaus Mora and dragons backing him the second war between the dominion and the empire his like to be a bloodbath for the elves anyway.

 

P.S. I am aware that all this is hypothetical and does not truly have a baring on the outcome of the civil wars morality. But it begs the questions "does it matter who win or who was right?" If you think about it this is a far more likely outcome than anything else given the nature of dragons. Food for thought.

 

-Joel Barron

 

I wish Bethesda included a quest to become high king/queen of Skyrim. The player could either marry Elisif, usurp Ulfric or Tulius, or be elected legally by moot (have to do Jalrs quests to get them to vote for you; this would allow your spouse to be high king/queen as well). It's the only logical conclusion to the Civil War in a lot of ways. It's almost as if Bethesda is afraid of "God Complex" since the heroes of TES can do great things and become guild masters, but they are never allowed to be as mighty as the Divines, or other legendary figures in Tamriel's history... Even if they are equal, or even greater than those beings and historical people.

[Lachdonin]

This is all moot anyway, the high kingship of Skyrim as well as the throne of the empire belong to the dragonborn. The kingship is his by rights as the heir of Ysgramor and the empire is his as a dragonborn i.e. a member of the Septim bloodline.

 

Er... No, no, no and, finally, no.

 

Ysgramor was not Dragonborn. There is nothing to indicate he was, and he died long before the Dragon War. In fact, in all likelihood Ysgramor was a follower of the Atmoran Dragon Cult, and thus was a Dragon Worshiper.

 

Second, the throne of Skyrim doesn't belong to the Dragonborn. King Harald, the one who founded Skyrim and was the first High King, was likewise, not Dragonborn.

 

Third, Talos himself tells you it's time for a change, and step one is getting rid of the whole 'shared blood' nonsense. The Imperial Dragon Throne no longer belongs to the Dragonborn by divine mandate. A mandate, I might add, that comes from a god superior (using it loosely here, but Talos is more powerful) to Akatosh.

 

And finally, being Dragonborn does not mean you are related to the Septims. The Septims were one family of Dragonborn, the Dovahkiin is from another line of descent altogether. He has no relation to Tiber Septim

 

 

*snip*

 

Now, again, this is a gross oversimplification. If you want to argue down this route, it was more like...

 

Pre-War;

Thalmor: Give me $100

Empire : Rot in hell

 

Great war happens, lots of people die, Empire and Dominion spent

 

Post War;

Empire: OK, how do we end this?

Thalmor: Give me $100

Empire: How about $20

Thalmor: $20, and you take down the bearded man statues

Empire: Deal (fingers crossed on the statues)

Hammerfell; Hey! That was my $20! Eff you guys, we're building our own clubhouse.

 

And even that is so oversimplified that posting it makes me queasy.

 

The Empire did not give the Dominion exactly what it wanted, it only offered them a small portion of what they wanted. And claiming 'they didn't have the stomach' for the fight is absurd, and shows a complete lack of knowledge about warfare. We are told, mater of fact, that the Empire had no infrastructure with which to supply a foreign army. If you don't understand the significance of that, well, there's no point in having a military discussion with you.

 

 

Aaaand... WolfPalatine... I agree, there is far more complexity to the Thalmor than just the whole "They are evil" thing. I also agree that the stalemate ending is by far the most likely. By TES6, both Tullius and Ulfric will be dead, the war will be ongoing, and the Empire will be looking elsewhere for the forces it needs to confront the Dominion.

 

Or we'll have Landfall, and everyone will scream like little girls.

 

Edited October 23, 2013 by Lachdonin

[shubcthulhu]

I side with the Imperials simply because I don't like how Ulfric and his Stormcloaks treat my favorite races, the Argonians and the Khajiit. Sure the game starts with the Imperials about to behead you, but at least they aren't a bunch of self centred racists.