But seriously, who do you think really won the civil war?

[fraquar]

There may be no evidence that Skyrim wanted to continue fighting, but then again there isn't any that they weren't either. What we do know is an Empire called them to fight, and then turned right around and essentially surrendered to the very terms offered before a drop of Skyrim soldiers blood was shed. Terms that would make even the average Skyrim soldier say "WTF"? Terms that did make the average Hammerfell soldier say "WTF"?

Edited February 8, 2015 by fraquar

[TheVampireDante]

before a drop of Skyrim soldiers blood was shed.

 

Where did you get that idea from?

[117649AR]

Nords fought in the Great War from the beginning, just the same as the Imperials, Bretons, Redguards, Orcs, and assorted Elves that also fought as Legionnaires. The Legion is an incredibly diverse force, arguably the most diverse on Nirn. That said, the Great War was not fought in Skyrim, it was fought in Cyrodiil. If anyone has the right to be bitter, it is the Imperials: the other provinces may have sent troops to fight, but it was Cyrodiil that bled in the Oblivin Crisis, and Cyrodiil that bled in the Great War. They had more cause than any to despise the Thalmor, just as they had more cause than any to idolize Talos, who founded their Empire. And they did, and still do. The only reason they signed the Concordat was to gather strength so that they could defeat the Dominion later, and in practice the Legion never enforced the ban on Talos worship.

[MightyZ0G]

 

before a drop of Skyrim soldiers blood was shed.

 

Where did you get that idea from?

 

I'm guessing from context and knowledge from the various wikis that he means that the Empire could have accepted the Dominion's terms and the Great War wouldn't have been fought at all

[Lachdonin]

There may be no evidence that Skyrim wanted to continue fighting, but then again there isn't any that they weren't either. What we do know is an Empire called them to fight, and then turned right around and essentially surrendered to the very terms offered before a drop of Skyrim soldiers blood was shed. Terms that would make even the average Skyrim soldier say "WTF"? Terms that did make the average Hammerfell soldier say "WTF"?

Are you honestly saying that because we have nothing that indicates whether or not Skyrim objected or did mot object to the Concordant at the time of signing, it's proof that they objected? Do you understand how the Burden of Proof works?

 

You are also, again, misrepresenting what happened. The terms of Tue Concordant did not cause Hammerfell, or the average soldier thereof, to go 'WTF?'. They didn't care about Talos or the gold, they objected to relinquishing territories in southern Hammerfell. Territories which, I should point out, were already under enemy control. There was no 'WTF?', it was simply 'We want our land back'.

 

And all their short sightedness got them was a weakened Empire for their pride, and a devastated Southern Hammerfell because they couldn't wait. And on top of that, Kematu's statements imply there is STILL sole kind of occupation in the region.

 

You are making claims without evidence while arguing that they are valid because nothing disputes them, oversimplifying and misrepresenting known facts, and blatantly ignoring other evidence, and frankly, imgetting rather tired of it.

[MidbossVyers]

There may be no evidence that Skyrim wanted to continue fighting, but then again there isn't any that they weren't either. What we do know is an Empire called them to fight, and then turned right around and essentially surrendered to the very terms offered before a drop of Skyrim soldiers blood was shed. Terms that would make even the average Skyrim soldier say "WTF"? Terms that did make the average Hammerfell soldier say "WTF"?

Balgruuf, who eventually sides with the Empire, still implies that he wanted to continue fighting, or at the very least, work towards a fairer treaty, "This again?! That was different. Was I given a chance to object to the terms of the treaty? No. The Jarls weren't asked. We were told. And we had to like it."

[Lachdonin]

That is a REALLY vague statement... Even if it does imply that there were Jarl's who wanted to co.tinue the war, it doesn't give any indication of the split or the conditions... More likely, it's a statement about disagreeing with the terms of the Treaty, not an outright desire to keep fighting.

[MidbossVyers]

Fighting is not necessarily physical, and I did mention working towards a fairer treaty. Also, I've heard arguments that the Stormcloaks already lost because Ulfric was captured at the beginning of the game, and that the only reason he escaped was because of Alduin's attack. Thing is, during the 3 Kingdoms period of China, the Battle of Chibi was won mainly because the wind changed direction. Victories and defeats are not made invalid simply because the deciding factor of it is of a natural or uncontrollable cause.

Edited February 16, 2015 by MidbossVyers

[117649AR]

Err, I'm not quite sure what the point you're trying to make here is.

[MidbossVyers]

Most likely, history will say that when Cyrodiil fights the Aldmeri Dominion once more, Skyrim will help them, whether as a subject or an ally will be vague. By the way, ally does not necessarily equal friend.