When was Serana locked away?

[BrettM]

The evidence is a bit contradictory, but Serana may have been shut up in that monolith for about 4,000 years.

 

1. When released, Serana expresses amazement at the idea there's an empire in Cyrodiil. Yet, there have been three empires in Cyrodiil, founded by Alessia, Reman, and Tiber Septim. This means that the latest she could have been shut away is the interregnum between the second and third empires, before around 2E 850, for a minimum of around 600 years of imprisonment.

 

This would fit with a later statement about having been shut away for a "few hundred years" when you ask her for ideas about where to find a Moth Priest. However, it doesn't fit with some of the other evidence, nor with the implication that she's amazed that there is any empire, not just amazed that a new empire has arisen. If she is truly unaware of any empire, then she would have to have been shut away before the beginning of the Alessian empire in 1E 243.

 

2. Serana has heard of the College of Winterhold, founded in the First Era, so she could not have been imprisoned before that founding. I don't know of any source with an exact date for that, but it was certainly well before the death of King Borgas in 1E 369, and probably well before his birth. As one of the "Old Holds" and very near to Saarthal, it would be fair to guess at a founding somewhere between the start of the First Era and the Alessian rebellion in Cyrodiil. This means that the earliest Seran could have been imprisoned was early in the First Era.

 

3. Durnehviir made a deal with the Ideal Masters to keep Valerica imprisoned in the Soul Cairn until she died in exchange for necromantic powers he could use in territorial battles against other dragons. This means that Valerica was in the Soul Cairn first, by at least a short amount of time, and she didn't go there until she had seen to the safety of Serana and her Elder Scroll. But, when did Durnehviir arrive?

 

By 2E 373, the extermination of the dragons was nearly complete. I doubt that the dov were very concerned about vying with each other for "small slices of territory" during the years of the Akaviri Crusade against them. These dragon territorial conflicts almost certainly took place before the Dragonguard became a threat to their race. Thus, I would expect that Durnehviir entered the Soul Cairn some time between the beginning of the First Era and the arrival of the Dragonguard in 1E 2703. Coupled with Serana's surprise concerning an empire in Cyrodiil, it would have to be either before the founding of the Alessian empire or in the interregnum between the first and second empires. It seems impossible that it could have been during the interregnum between the second and third empires, as only a couple of dragons were known by the public to exist in Tiber Septim's time.

 

4. The prophecy that started the problem was invented by Arch-Curate Vyrthur after one of his initiates turned him into a vampire. Since there were initiates around, the Chantry of Auriel was not yet wiped out by the Betrayed at the time this happened. The culture of the Snow Elves was not entirely extingished until some time early in the First Era, since King Harald's men were still chasing down remnants of their armies in 1E 140. The creation of the prophecy and the final downfall of the Chantry could have been well before the race was thought to be finally extinct, possibly even in the late Merethic Era, but I doubt it could have been much later.

 

The question then becomes when Harkon learned of this prophecy, but I know of no evidence at all on that point.

 

(On a side note, it is interesting that Knight-Paladin Gelebor appears to be just as long lived as his immortal vampire brother. Do the Snow Elves have longer life spans than the other mer? Gelebor did tell us that it took the Betrayed "generations" to become so completely twisted, which suggests a much shorter life span, at least for those who were enslaved by the Dwemer.)

 

In summary, I can only conclude from the above that Serana was put in her monolith sometime between 1E 0 and 1E 243. I can't see any way to fit the pieces together to support any other conclusion. Can anyone put a different spin on the facts?

[ClonePatrol]

Pretty sure Serana predates the Alessian Empire, but I don't think the exact date is known (or calculable with the information available). As for Gelebor, he may have extended his life somehow with magic without resorting to lichdom or vampirism. Divayth Fyr used magic to extend his life and during the events of Morrowind was already over four-thousand years old. Edited August 23, 2012 by ClonePatrol

[sajuukkhar9000]

When inside Dwemer ruins Serana has a chance of asking a question along the lines of "why did the Dwarves let their city get so run down", as if she doesn't know the Dwemer are gone. I do believe she predates the Dwemer's disappearance, and the Alessian Empire, which would fit with your between 1E 0 and 1E 243 theory.

 

 

Also any Mer can live for thousands of years. However, war, disease, and other violence, usually prevent that from happening. Divayth Fyr was over 4,000 years old during the time of Morrowind.

 

Uupse Fyr even hints that there may be even older mages on The Summerset Isles.

Edited August 23, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Pentigan]

The current estimated maximum for High Elves is around a century. Divayth had access to exceedingly powerful magic, and likely several mages on the Summerset Isles are in a similar position.

 

Gelebor is currently the last living guardian of Auriel's Chantry, which I believe implies some sort of assistance from Auriel himself to account for the rather large age.

 

The only real outliers that I can see for Serana's date of sealing is the architecture of Castle Volikhar (which she doesn't note as being changed since her last time there) and her not mentioning the pre-Alessian Aelyd Empire which operated in both Cyrod and Skyrim during the first era.

[BrettM]

Serana does refer to "previous owners" of the castle during a conversation about the moon dial in the courtyard. If Harkon didn't build it, who did? Certainly not the Nords, since it doesn't match their architecture from ANY era except for the watchtower out front. Could it have been built by Snow Elves, back during their heyday? We don't have any known examples of original Falmer construction with the exception of the Chantry, though they did build Windhelm as slave labor under the direction of the Nords. However, I wouldn't expect a temple like the Chantry to be totally representative of ordinary construction.

 

Also of note is the similar architecture of the area where Serana was entombed. While it adjoins a typical ancient Nord crypt, it is very different. I see some resemblance to the architecture of the Chantry there, as well as the architecture of Castle Volkihar.

 

On another note, where exactly did Harkon and his family come from originally? He claims to have been a wealthy king before becoming a vampire. The UESP wiki claims they're Nords, but that doesn't make sense to me, especially if they were around in the early First Era and before. I suspect that they're immigrants to Skyrim from elsewhere. High Rock, perhaps?

Edited August 26, 2012 by BrettM

[Lachdonin]

The current estimated maximum for High Elves is around a century. Divayth had access to exceedingly powerful magic, and likely several mages on the Summerset Isles are in a similar position.

 

Actually, the current, maximum lifespan for a High Elf is about 1000 years, not 100. Few make it that far, however. Most other Mer have slightly shorter lives, with Dunmer seeming to follow a close second (though, Barenziah looked rather haggard at a rather young 500, but then again the Dunmer tend to be a rough bunch).

 

As for the archetecture, there were Men in Skyrim long before the First Era. In fact, Skyrim is supposed to be where Lorkhan first created Men on Nirn. They were subsequently defeated when Lorkhan fel to the Divines, and 'moved' to Atmora, where (it seems, anyway) they were left under the supervision of Dragons. Thus, the castle, and the ruins in which you find Serana, could be Lorkhan-War era human archetecture, meaning they date to the late Dawn, early Merethic era.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Lachdonin

[Pentigan]

Yeah, I meant to say 1000 I just derped up on the word to use and somehow ended up with century.

 

It's also interesting to note that the castle might actually be very old, for one specific reason: Yellow Mountain Flowers.

 

The Yellow mountain flowers are only really found in the restored courtyard, the Elder Moth grove and the Vale (Possibly the canyon Fort Dawnguard is in, not sure). Everywhere else the yellow flower is extinct, so the castle dates to at least before the extinction of the yellow mountain flowers.

[Freya1997]

So Serana may be one of the oldest lore characters still alive? Outside of Daedra and Aedra obviously. At least she's been well preserved and remarkably sane given how long she must've been without sating the blood thirst.

[Lachdonin]

At least she's been well preserved and remarkably sane given how long she must've been without sating the blood thirst.

 

Some form of stasis magic, or a deep hibernation could account for her rather healthy state. Her close proximity to an Elder Scroll, which inherently warp time, could also explain it.

 

As for her age, it's possible that she could be considerably younger than anticipated, because the Allessian empire never, technically, ruled Skyrim. In fact, with the exception of Highrock, it was almost entirely limited to Cyrodil, so Serana may not have even known about it, or considered it an Empire at all.

 

At the very latest, she would have to have been put into 'stasis' around 1E 2700, because no one can debate the validity of the Reman Empire.

 

Either way, she is very old. The only mortal i know of who is older is Divayth Fyr (though, his age is somewhat dubious, as he's supposed to be 4000, but at the same time says he wasn't alive when the Dwemer were around, but the dissapearance of the Dwemer happened less than 3000 years before Skrim, let alone Morrowind). And her parents, of course.

[Freya1997]

 

 

Some form of stasis magic, or a deep hibernation could account for her rather healthy state. Her close proximity to an Elder Scroll, which inherently warp time, could also explain it.

 

As for her age, it's possible that she could be considerably younger than anticipated, because the Allessian empire never, technically, ruled Skyrim. In fact, with the exception of Highrock, it was almost entirely limited to Cyrodil, so Serana may not have even known about it, or considered it an Empire at all.

 

At the very latest, she would have to have been put into 'stasis' around 1E 2700, because no one can debate the validity of the Reman Empire.

 

Either way, she is very old. The only mortal i know of who is older is Divayth Fyr (though, his age is somewhat dubious, as he's supposed to be 4000, but at the same time says he wasn't alive when the Dwemer were around, but the dissapearance of the Dwemer happened less than 3000 years before Skrim, let alone Morrowind). And her parents, of course.

Stasis magic makes sense. Forgot about what the elder scrolls can do though, but that too makes sense. I do wonder how they managed to obtain that the two elder scrolls that show up during dawnguard though...