Next best thing for the US (and perhaps the world)

[Beriallord]

 

Tidus44 said:

 

The "I know..." declaration as proof of anything is pretty weak and meaningless, especially given the accusations have been investigated and demonstrated to be false. I have a hard time believing that hundreds of thousands of people are going from place to place across municipal, county and state borders in order to sway election results by fraudulently voting. The US system of voting is pretty good and while you are entitled to whatever opinion, the issue isn't about showing ID anyway.

The issue is what is "valid" ID and violating people's rights under the First, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, Nineteenth, and Twenty-Sixth amendments. For example, Minnesota recently tried to deny the right to vote by stating Tribal ID was not valid and only a driver's license would be accepted. The idea that everyone has a driver's license is just ludicrous. These asinine rules only prevent primarily, the young, the disabled, the elderly and the poor - those who do not own cars and therefore do not have a license - from voting. One wonders why this is such an issue for mainly the Republicans and Republican states, when there is no proof any amount of voter fraud is occurring anyway.

 

No voter fraud taking place? You sure?

 

http://votingrights.news21.com/interactive/election-fraud-database/

 

Documented cases of voter fraud listed by state. A substantial portion was absentee ballots. Of course you don't have to prove you are who you say you are with absentee ballots. A lot of States put these under an incredible amount of scrutiny and for good reason.

 

I don't have any problem showing an ID when I vote, even if its an inconvenience. And that is my opinion, and its not changing.

 

Actually, as an engineer myself, someone coming out of college 3 to 5 years behind the technology, with limited drawing skills and can't do anything but watch someone else work and making 65k a year is pretty darn good. For every 5 I see hired, maybe 1 makes it and the rest I have practice saying, "Do you want fries with that?".

 

The average UAW salary as of October 2012 was $35k a year. Some workers make as little as $14.00/hr. As for your idea all they do is tighten a bolt all day, I have to ask if where you are is still 1940 and you have been stuck in a time warp. Entry level jobs in an assembly line may be tightening a bolt, but they are certainly not making $58K a year. Do you actually think the people assembling transmissions and engines just put part A on bolt B and tighten? People who assemble cars must have skills like welder, mechanic, machinist, in electronics or other technical skills or they don't work on assembling a vehicle. To be a supervisor on the line they have to have a degree. I have no idea where you got your idea of what an autoworker does, but its somewhat like your opinion on voter ID. It may be what you think, but it isn't fact.

 

I actually have some experience working in an automotive plant. The Toyota plant in Georgetown Kentucky, to be specific. They make the Toyota Camry. Its also non-union. The starting pay was $13.00/hr, and you basically started as a part sorter, which is a very boring, monotonous job. The ones working on the line and tightening bolts were mostly senior employees. The engines and transmissions were only assembled by mechanics, meaning highly skilled labor.

 

Also:

http://www.uaw.org/content/wage-increases-entry-level-workers-add-their-base-pay

 

Under this scale an entry level employee can make $19.28/hr working for Ford. That is a lot of money for an entry level job, and is considerably more than Toyota pays its entry level workers. You actually had to be a mechanic or a machinist to get that level of pay at the Toyota plant I worked at. And I only suggested that some of the UAW workers make more than engineers.

 

And you spoke up as to why a lot of young engineers don't cut it, and that has a whole lot to do with the entirety of their experience being schooling, with no real work experience in their particular field. I've seen people who were book smart, but not work smart. And you have to be both to be an engineer. I was a CAD drafter, and some of the engineers were doing basically what I was doing, except they made 50% more money, just because they had that degree. But I'm not hating, I'm just saying education pays.

 

Also I don't buy American cars anymore because they are union and unions are funneling money to the Democratic Party. IMO Toyota makes better cars anyway.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Beriallord

[colourwheel]

 

Tidus44 said:

 

The "I know..." declaration as proof of anything is pretty weak and meaningless, especially given the accusations have been investigated and demonstrated to be false. I have a hard time believing that hundreds of thousands of people are going from place to place across municipal, county and state borders in order to sway election results by fraudulently voting. The US system of voting is pretty good and while you are entitled to whatever opinion, the issue isn't about showing ID anyway.

The issue is what is "valid" ID and violating people's rights under the First, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, Nineteenth, and Twenty-Sixth amendments. For example, Minnesota recently tried to deny the right to vote by stating Tribal ID was not valid and only a driver's license would be accepted. The idea that everyone has a driver's license is just ludicrous. These asinine rules only prevent primarily, the young, the disabled, the elderly and the poor - those who do not own cars and therefore do not have a license - from voting. One wonders why this is such an issue for mainly the Republicans and Republican states, when there is no proof any amount of voter fraud is occurring anyway.

 

No voter fraud taking place? You sure?

 

http://votingrights.news21.com/interactive/election-fraud-database/

 

Documented cases of voter fraud listed by state.

 

I don't have any problem showing an ID when I vote, even if its an inconvenience. And that is my opinion, and its not changing.

 

"The nation has 2,068 cases of alleged election fraud since 2000. By category, Unknown had the highest percentage of accused at 31 percent (645 cases), followed by Voters at 31 percent (633 cases). The most prevalent fraud was Absentee Ballot Fraud at 24 percent (491 cases). The status of most cases was Pleaded at 27 percent (558 cases)."

 

Voter fraud of only around 2,068 alleged cases recorded over a decade is not substantial to disenfranchise millions of voters each year when the evidence shows that most prevalent fraud was Absentee Ballot Fraud. In person voting fraud has never been a huge problem in our country. To make legislation for voting ID would not really be helping. It's like someone going through chemotherapy just because they found a small mole growing on their toe.

 

Also I don't buy American cars anymore because they are union and unions are funneling money to the Democratic Party. IMO Toyota makes better cars anyway.

 

I find this an interesting comment. Not buying american cars because you think toyota makes better cars is understandable yet its very unamerican to state the other reason why. There is no evidence Unions are funneling money to the Democratic Party anymore than any huge corperations or public organizations are funneling money to any political party. Might as well say you will stop being a comercial consumer at any degree because our whole country is having buisnesses and origanizations funnel money in politics. Boycotting something just because it's linked to unions is laughable because the power that heats your home in the winter time is linked to unions too.

Edited November 3, 2012 by colourwheel

[mizdarby]

With only 4 days left to the actual election, Obama is still most likely to be next President, and I hope that he will provide the necessary policies to start growing the American economy again.

I agree their is no proven links to automotive unions funneling funds to the Democratic party, although the links between the Obama and Monsanto (ddt, agent orange and gmo's amongst their products over history) are a little disturbing, particularly with Michael Taylor (lobbyist for Monsanto) being given the deputy commissioner role with the FDA, and the entirely 'coincidental' refusal of the FDA to label genetically modified food (which suits Monsanto very well). But I'm sure Romney has his own dubious links to industry.

I thank everybody who voted on the straw poll, the current result of Obama winning the straw poll will almost certainly be reflected in the real world.

[Tidus44]

No voter fraud taking place? You sure?

Documented cases of voter fraud listed by state.

 

So, 2068 cases out of 197,000,000 votes is rampant voter fraud? OK. If you say so.

 

Tell you what, I'll give you $197 million dollars, you give it all away except for $2068.00 that you keep for yourself and then tell me how happy you are with the rampant amount of money you kept.

I fully accept that you believe 2068 out of 197 million is "rampant" and that no argument will convince you otherwise.

 

 

I don't have any problem showing an ID when I vote, even if its an inconvenience. And that is my opinion, and its not changing.

 

When you show up to vote, have your picture ID issued by the NCEES ready because that's the only ID that is accepted in order to vote. I guess if you don't have this particular ID you will be quite acceptable to this rule, will not change your opinion about voter ID and will just go away and not vote.

The Republican Party thanks you for being a "good American".

 

I also have a question. If voter ID is the answer to the rampant voter fraud you say you know of, why is it that Kansas, which has the strictest voter ID law in the USA, still has voter fraud occurring and more cases of actual fraud (double voting) than California (mainly unlawful registration - not voting issues) a state that has no voter ID law?

Perhaps the answer is that the registration and voting system is actually pretty good in the USA at identifying who may vote and really doesn't need a voter ID law to make it safe from the rampant fraud you say is occurring.

 

Under this scale an entry level employee can make $19.28/hr working for Ford.

 

So a good employee who has provided 4 years of good work is not entitled to raises and incentives from $15/hour to $19/hour? I am so glad I do not work for you.

 

I would suppose then that you find the pay scales for the executives at Ford quite acceptable and completely worthwhile since they have a degree. I mean Ford only made 20 billion in profits last year so they are obviously going broke.

 

In 2009 when the auto industry was supposedly collapsing the UAW was forced into giving up wages including the elimination of cost-of-living allowances and workers were laid off. The UAW did this to ensure their retiree health care trust fund would continue. Allan Mulally and Bill Ford agreed to a salary cut and loss of bonuses as a gesture of “equal sacrifice”.

 

In 2011, workers gave up three or four raises and break time and younger workers went on half pay ($14.00/hr) and the UAW even gave up more in the contracts.

Meanwhile, Ford made 20 billion in profits and executives were paid, from the lowest to highest - between 5 million and up to 22 million a year, plus bonuses and incentives and Ford resumed paying dividends to its big investors. Alan Mulally was paid $29.5 million (2011), plus $58.3 million in incentives. In 2010 and 2011 he made more than 100 million dollars.

 

And poor Ford is just being run into the ground by all those over paid workers making $19/hour.

 

Beriallord - I'll let you live in your world of what you think is fair, but please do not ask me to accept it.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Tidus44

[colourwheel]

With all the negative campaign ads I still see on TV and on the internet I wish Obama would have come out with better Nagative campaign ads attacking mitt Romney.

 

Wish this was a real Campaign ad for Obama...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIJeO-Y5Yg8&feature=player_embedded

CIJeO-Y5Yg8

 

 

edit:

 

As of today according to Nate Silver's political calculus it now shows Obama's chances of winning the election at 83.7% over Romney's chances at 16.3%. Obama would probably win with atleast 305 electoral votes if the election was held today.

Edited November 3, 2012 by colourwheel

[Tidus44]

With all the negative campaign ads I still see on TV and on the internet I wish Obama would have come out with better Nagative campaign ads attacking mitt Romney.

 

Wish this was a real Campaign ad for Obama...

 

 

 

Now I need a new keyboard - sprayed coffee all over it and the monitor watching this. Best video on the election I've seen yet.

 

 

Kind of news story Fox News would do if they supported the Democrats.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Tidus44

[colourwheel]

I think Romney is done...

 

Obama's chance of winning is now at 85.1% over Romney's chance at 14.9%

 

According to nate silver's political calculus at the rate the presidential canidates are making their closing arguements Obama is increasing in probability by almost 2% each day that goes by while Romney is decreasing almost 2% each day. I think after looking at the trend of his data by the time tuesday comes around Obama might win by 310 electoral votes. Reguardless of media preaching how close the race is, sometimes its hard to ignore the actual numbers and statistics of polls all put together and run through a program hundreds of times.

 

It will be interesting how accurate Nate's data is by tuesday. if it's even close to what has been projected his way of calculating poll data could be the future on analysing political race outcomes for decades.

Edited November 4, 2012 by colourwheel

[Tidus44]

I think Romney is done...

 

Obama's chance of winning is now at 85.1% over Romney's chance at 14.9%

 

According to nate silver's political calculus at the rate the presidential canidates are making their closing arguements Obama is increasing in probability by almost 2% each day that goes by while Romney is decreasing almost 2% each day. I think after looking at the trend of his data by the time tuesday comes around Obama might win by 310 electoral votes. Reguardless of media preaching how close the race is, sometimes its hard to ignore the actual numbers and statistics of polls all put together and run through a program hundreds of times.

 

It will be interesting how accurate Nate's data is by tuesday. if it's even close to what has been projected his way of calculating poll data could be the future on analysing political race outcomes for decades.

 

I certainly hope the predictions are correct. I was thinking that we have to turn the clocks back an hour today, but hopefully voters won't turn the US back 20 years on Tuesday.

[colourwheel]

The republican party is getting desperate this weekend. Voter ID laws are not working for the republican party so they are just plain right resorting to blocking voters and intimidating voters who show up at the polls.

 

The governor of florida rick scott has blocked early voting making it harder to vote early and not letting people vote who have waited in line for hours closing the voting places before everyone who shows up can actaully vote. Rick Scott even made it so there is less time to early vote having the voting polls open less hours a day. This attempt to try to get rid of early voting shows the ID laws put in place were obviously made just to repress the voters and try to shrink the electoral college in favor of the republican party. Rick Scott even tried earlier to get rid of early voting completely till it was taken to the supreme court. Even in Ohio there has been reports the republican party is trying to even stop people from voting completely by intimidating minorities who show up to vote asking them unnecessary questions before they go into the polls.

 

I hope something in washington gets done about this after the election is over. I think all the people involved in any form of disenfranchising voters should be held accountable and face huge fines and prison time. this is a crime against all americans across the country.

 

Disenfranchising voters should be a felony.

 

I heard a lawsuit was already filed in the state of florida for this voter blocking.

 

The republican party is becoming even less of a reputable political party than it has been viewed in the past. The current Republican party is just down right idiotic and people who support the party should be embarrassed about what their party has been trying to do to the american people. The Tea Party use to talk about Obama was trying to take their freedoms away yet it's the republican establishment that is trying to take away peoples freedom to vote. Loss of freedom seems only convenient in america to those who don't care if it helps get the people they want in political power.

 

I honestly beleive if the republican party as it is today had complete control in the house, the senate, and all levels of government the country would fail. limited government in our economic system and changing times would probably just result in the top 1% owning over 99% of the countries wealth (if you look at history the wealthy make over 350% more in income than 50 years ago). People fear on the right the country is turning too socialistic, but the way the Republican party wishes to run the government seems far worst. In some aspects it would seem the Republican party is so bent on political power it would seem some of the republican representatives would try to take over the country as a dictator if they had the opportunity to do so.

 

I certainly don't want a repeat of 4 more years of Obama's 1st term but I don't want what Romney is trying to sell which is almost exactly the same plan Bush had with almost the exact same people bush had in his cabnet that got us into the huge economic mess in the begining of 2009.

 

One huge reason why I don't trust Romney is because he seems more likely to be the kinda person who would step all over his best friend just to get ahead. His compassion for people in general seems very disingenuous and fake. Romney seems like if he was a friend he would be the kinda friend who would constantly lie about things and pretend he was not wrong even after being caught. Romney seems like the kinda a guy who would run and manage a store where he is the boss of every employee that hate him. If Romney is truely a businessman he would probably sell out anyone and anything just for a substantial amount of profit. You have to ask yourself looking at Romney's political history and his business history, would you actually trust Romney?

 

Obama Actaully seems more like someone who I would want to be friends with. Obama actaul seems more like someone who genuinely cares about people. Obama seems more like he understand humility. Looking at Obamas political history and his history as a community organizer he seems more like someone i would trust with my life. Obama actually cares about the people of america and not just the people who support him unlike Romney. Obama actually is just more down to earth than Romney. Obama overall as a person just seems more positive than Romney.

 

Politics shouldn't be like sports teams. Seems like people root for their political party like its a football team playing a rival. Just because your political party is caught playing dirty doesn't mean you should pretend nothing is wrong reguardless of political beliefs. If the political party I support was caught playing dirty, I wouldn't just pretend it's ok just because it's my party.

 

The country is getting better the last few months but I hope if Obama has a 2nd term the economy will speed up just a little bit faster than it has.

Edited November 5, 2012 by colourwheel

[Beriallord]

I find this an interesting comment. Not buying american cars because you think toyota makes better cars is understandable yet its very unamerican to state the other reason why. There is no evidence Unions are funneling money to the Democratic Party anymore than any huge corperations or public organizations are funneling money to any political party. Might as well say you will stop being a comercial consumer at any degree because our whole country is having buisnesses and origanizations funnel money in politics. Boycotting something just because it's linked to unions is laughable because the power that heats your home in the winter time is linked to unions too.

 

The UAW contributes campaign contributions exclusively to the Democratic Party. Maybe you should look into that before you call me unamerican for boycotting a company that represents a political ideology I disagree with. Companies that advocate a Liberal agenda, I just don't buy their products. And people on the other side of the fence also apply the same thing to companies that represent ideologies they don't agree with, like Chick-fil-a. But I'm not going to call them unamerican for boycotting Chick-fi-a because they don't agree with their political stance. Its not unamerican, its putting your money where your mouth is at.

 

Actually the power that heats my home is generated by coal power, which Obama was caught saying he wants to bankrupt. My electric bill is very reasonable compared to other places, because its powered by a cheap energy source.

 

I actually wasn't even going to vote in this election, but I changed my mind and am going to cast a vote for Romney. Also we got a senator that needs to take a hike right along with Obama, and he is on the rail this election. Obama getting the boot and - 1 to the Democratic Senate would be a great victory.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Beriallord