Meet your meat

[Zmid]

I myself limit the amount of meat I eat. I do eat it, but not much. Usually only once or twice a week. If I eat too much meat, I often get that tired feeling the next day.

I myself have a varied diet - meat, vegetables, milk, fish, basically it's practically you name it, I eat/drink it. (Cue the ridiculous suggestions..... ^_^ )

 

The idea of 'animals exist only to suffer and die for us' is plain sick IMO.

 

You've obviously misunderstood this particular argument. I am not saying there's some kind of divine right that humans are better than animals. I am saying that:

 

a ) Humans ARE animals. Animals feed on animals in nature. Why not humans? Humans do this in a far more sophisticated manner, yes, but that is essentially what is happening.

 

b ) These animals onlt exist in their current form due to the fact that humans have farmed and bred these animals for thousands of years for the sole purpose of being food. These animals would simply not exist in nature if it weren't for humans. If you released them into the wild, they'd simply make a very easy meal for another animal, so it would be the same difference.

 

Just imagine an alien race comes over here and brutally enslaves us, and then lets humans breed and work under nightmarish conditions, killing everyone that isn't productive anymore, and justify this kind of behaviour to themselves with things like "humans are inferior", "humans have no soul", "humans are not sentient", "morality is relative" and "it's natural for things like these to happen, since we are the stronger species and all stronger species do this everywhere". Just think about it. Would you still support these arguments, the same as some people use, when the tables are turned?

 

This is slavery. We are talking about meat consumption. Different topic.

 

As for the suffering of animals, they are NOT sedated when slaughtered, nor are they when pigs get their tails cut off and their teeth pulled out, just to name some things. And I don't think I want to spill out more details here or go on about mutilations.

 

Obviously you missed part of the debate then. This is the kind of things that go on in slaughterhouses which aren't run as they should be. This activity is wrong. It's bad for the animals. It's bad for business.

 

Often cows and chickens get fed so much fat-making food they grow to death because their cramped space cannot contain them or they are unable to support themselves. These animals usually live only for 2 weeks to a month in a cage in which they cannot even turn around, sometimes in near-darkness, before they are slaughtered. Chickens that are kept to produce eggs are held in similar conditions.

 

Unless they're free range. Myself, I don't understand why this happens, as if you treat the animals better, not only is the produce generally of higher quality (though, admittedly, in not as high quantities), you would also be able to get great marketing material for very little outlay and be able to project a good public image by simply getting a few pictures of how the animals are kept, which would mean you should be able to make around the same amount of money, or perhaps even more.

[Faust870]

Wow, after watching that video i was throughly disgusted... I didnt know they treated animals like that... but see i look at it like this... Its the food chain... A tiger runs down a gazelle in africa... snaps its neck, and then eats it...this is because a tiger is a carnivor... its the way the food chain is... we as humans are omnivors... we enjoy both. We have a more civilized way of preparing our meat (Well, not really civilized hence the abuse)... The only reason we have these Slaughter houses... is because we have the intellegence to create such a thing...

 

Its called the food chain... Eating meat isnt a bad thing... and some meats are good for you... however, meat can cause cancer!... so think about that if you want to stop eating meat...

[MyDogsTale]

A tiger runs down a gazelle in africa

 

i just have to comment on this one (no offense or anything :) ) but there arn't any tigers in Africa except those who are held in captivity.

 

This is slavery. We are talking about meat consumption. Different topic.

 

Is it? Well, it is basically what humans have been doing for a long time...just throw in that the aliens started breeding us for food, then it would be what the human race has been doing for the longest time.

[Faust870]

QUOTE 

A tiger runs down a gazelle in africa

 

 

 

i just have to comment on this one (no offense or anything  ) but there arn't any tigers in Africa except those who are held in captivity.

 

There are tigers in africa man... lol... we just got finished studying the wildlife in africa in my Travel & Tourism class.... I could go into detail and tell you whereabouts they are... if you want me to...pm me

[MyDogsTale]

Im editing my post here:

 

http://www.cedrhill.org/index.php?page=3

 

I do not stand corrected anymore...

I had a few checks around and what you have learned in you class must be completly wrong.

 

now, i have sent my PM to you and we'll se your answer...

Btw, you can take away the "i stand corrected" part from it...(im not pissed or anything, but i just don't stand corrected anymore)

 

The only tigers in Africa i know are the small number beeing released there so that the species can gain some numbers...(these are a VERY few, but it may have been those you meant, but there were no tigers there initially)

 

MyDogsTale - editing like hell

[Zmid]

This is slavery. We are talking about meat consumption. Different topic.

 

Is it? Well, it is basically what humans have been doing for a long time...just throw in that the aliens started breeding us for food, then it would be what the human race has been doing for the longest time.

Hmm. You might have a point there. OK, let's go back to Shakkara's original post:

Just imagine an alien race comes over here and brutally enslaves us, and then lets humans breed and work under nightmarish conditions, killing everyone that isn't productive anymore, and justify this kind of behaviour to themselves with things like "humans are inferior", "humans have no soul", "humans are not sentient", "morality is relative" and "it's natural for things like these to happen, since we are the stronger species and all stronger species do this everywhere". Just think about it. Would you still support these arguments, the same as some people use, when the tables are turned?

 

In this situation, my reaction would be to think of ways to fight the aliens and carry them out. The very fact I could do this quite nicely defeats the 'humans are not sentient' argument. To take the rest in turn:

 

'Humans are inferior' - without further details of this hypothetical alien race, I don't know whether this is true or not. The very fact they can 'brutally enslave us' suggests we are inferior at least in technological terms, and perhaps in other ways as well.

 

'Humans have no soul' - it is a matter of debate whether souls even exist.

 

'Morality is relative' - true. Take WW2. With the benefit of hindsight, most people (including me) say that the Nazi activities in WW2 are the most heinous and evil things anyone has ever done. At the time, and actually still in modern times, albeit to a far, far smaller scale, some people say it was/is a laudable goal and a just and righteous cause. In fact, a lot of the Nazis believed God was on their side.

 

'It's natural for things like these to happen, since we are the stronger species and all stronger species do this everywhere' - if you're talking about slavery, no. Apart from humans, I've never known of one animal to enslave another. If you're talking about animals eating other animals, yes. It's brutal, it's harsh, but that's the way nature works.

[MyDogsTale]

Apart from humans, I've never known of one animal to enslave another

 

Im not totally sure about this one but: I think some monkey species have been known to use slaves and dolphins has been recorded to have had another dophin as a sex slave (but this only happens if there are a large group of males and they meet a single female dolphin)...but it's a looong time since i read this so i may be wrong.

 

But the ironic thing here is that these are some of the most intelligent creatures after humans on the face of the earth...does enslavement accompany inteligence?

[Zmid]

Hmm, interesting idea. When you think about it, it could be quite logical that this is so. After all, it does take a certain level of intelligence to figure out that if you are stronger than someone else, or have some kind of hold over them, you can get them to do whatever you want.

[Faust870]

Im editing my post here:

 

http://www.cedrhill.org/index.php?page=3

 

I do not stand corrected anymore...

I had a few checks around and what you have learned in you class must be completly wrong.

 

now, i have sent my PM to you and we'll se your answer...

Btw, you can take away the "i stand corrected" part from it...(im not pissed or anything, but i just don't stand corrected anymore)

 

The only tigers in Africa i know are the small number beeing released there so that the species can gain some numbers...(these are a VERY few, but it may have been those you meant, but there were no tigers there initially)

 

MyDogsTale - editing like hell

omg... Im a moron..!! I didnt mean tiger!! lmao... I ment lion... Sorry!!... I stand corrected :D

[cactoblasta]

Slavery isn't exactly something that's purely for "intelligent" creatures. Ants, especially tree ants, keep herds of enslaved beetles and larvae for the purpose of food.

 

It's hard to think of anything less intelligent than an ant.