Ending

[Moraevik]

Don't get me wrong from my comments, Promiser. I agree with you 100%. While I can see the argument that's been put forth that the Dragonborn was simply the fourth essential piece in the puzzle to defeat Alduin, I don't personally think it should have been that easy. This was not a difficult fight at all. I've done it several times, already, all at moderately low levels, so that might have been an issue. I really don't know if this scenario is scaled or not, but Alduin was pretty much a pushover each time. Heck, he wasn't even that difficult, except for his meteor storm thing, when I took him on alone. Yes, Parth is supposed to be helping out, there, but I really don't know if Alduin is flagged to only accept player-inflicted damage or not at that point. I pretty much felt that Parth was just there to get in the way when I tried to used Dragonrend on Alduin.

 

I think that everyone present in the mead hall should have poured out and helped defeat Alduin in the end fight. It should have been an epic battle. It wasn't.

[sajuukkhar9000]

I think that everyone present in the mead hall should have poured out and helped defeat Alduin in the end fight. It should have been an epic battle. It wasn't.

It was not those people's destiny to fight Alduin.

 

The heroes that joined you had to help you to atone for their mistake ages ago.

[Cthuloot]

Right. The whole reason they didn't was because of the scary mist. When the Dovahkiin teamed up with Larry, Curly and Moe to clear the mist, there was suddenly no reason for them NOT to join you. Additionally, how did the Dovahkiin entering Sovernguard go down? Was his physical body there? Or just his spirit? If it was his physical body, would your spirit die too or would it just step out of your body, essentially giving you two lives to fight him with?

 

I think the fight with Alduin was just too easy to begin with as you said. I mean, they handed your THREE essential NPCs all with shouts, and are level 30. Alduin only has a level modifier of 1.2. So if you rolled into Sovernguard at level 10, Alduin would only be level 12, and you'd have yourself at level 10, and three undying level 30 helpers. I can't be the only one who thinks they didn't think this through very much.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Wrong, if you talk to people in the Halls of Valor they say they are not fighting Alduin because Shor commanded them not to. Edited September 10, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Cthuloot]

There was NO reason for Shor to tell them not to help. Additionally the heroes didn't have to atone for anything. They're in Sovernguard, if they had something to atone for and I was in charge they sure as hell wouldn't be kicking it in the Hall of Valor

[sajuukkhar9000]

There is a perfectly good reason for Shor to tell them to not fight Alduin.

 

Shor is Lorkhan, Lorkhan is Akatosh, and Alduin is Akatosh's firstborn son, in essence Alduin is the Jesus to Akatosh's god.

 

God would not send mere mortals to try to kill Jesus, even if Jesus went rouge, he would send another Jesus, in this case The Dovahkiin, who is an avatar of Shor, a Shezzarine, to do it.

 

Why do you think Alduin had access to Sovengarde in the first place? Because he is Shor's firstborn son

 

Also getting in to Sovengarde only requires you die a good death in combat.

Edited September 10, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Cthuloot]

Lorkhan and Akatosh. NOT the same person... Just throwing that one out there.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Lorkhan and Akatosh. NOT the same person... Just throwing that one out there.

Except they are, and its been shown in the games that they are, and one of the series foremost lore writers has confirmed that they are.

 

I have explained it before on this forum, though the link I provided is from UESP.

http://forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?p=763404#p763404

 

Chaos cannot exist without order, and order cannot exist without chaos. Do you know why? Because chaos and order are really one thing, everything itself, with an imaginary line drawn through it because of humanities limited perception which makes us see them as two. Where does chaos end and order begin? Wherever we chose to arbitrarily place the line between them.

 

Space cannot exist without time, and time cannot exist without space. Do you know why? Because space and time are really one thing, space-time, with an imaginary line drawn through it because of humanities limited perception which makes us see them as two. Where does space end and time begin? Wherever we chose to arbitrarily place the line between them.

 

 

Anyways, as I made mention of before, there is a connection between being an avatar of Aka, and an avatar of Lorkhan. This connection comes from the bond Akatosh and Lorkhan share, a bond that stretches back to when they were created, and indeed long before that.

 

This connection is that Akatosh and Lorkhan are the same being, now I know most of you will be like "but... but... no they aren't" to which I will say, "yes they are" and "It has even been stated by the devs, and shown in the games themselves".

 

 

This whole thing begins before the release of Oblivion, MK, also known as Michael Kirkbride, stated that it was Shezzar who put Alessia into the Amulet of Kings, the original quote has long since been lost due to edits, forum archiving and the like, however discussions about it still exist as I will link below.

The Imperial Library - http://www.imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/AmuletAmulet.html

UESP - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore_talk:Amulet_of_Kings#Shezzar_and_the_Chim-el_Adabal

 

However, when Oblivion came around, the book "The Amulet of Kings" stated it was Akatosh who put Alessia into the amulet.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Amulet_of_Kings

 

This creates a contradiction..... or so it would seem. I am going to leave this hanging for a bit as I continue.

 

 

Next, I would like to point out the stained glass windows that depict Akatosh in the chapels in Oblivion.

 

http://images.uesp.net/2/22/OB-Window-Akatosh.jpg

 

Do you notice anything about it? Look closer at the head area. Do you see that Akatosh has two heads, one of a man and one of a Dragon? Odd indeed, I will leave this for now while asking a simple question, do you know who the god of man is?

 

 

Now I will skip over to Skyrim.

 

As you are obviously aware of there is a statue in Whiterun, and in several places across Skyrim, that depict Talos standing on a snake, while Talos points a sword at the snake's open mouth.

 

http://images.uesp.net/a/ad/SR-concept-Shrine_Of_Talos.jpg

 

This statue is very symbolic in many ways, many important ways.

 

Let us take a look at the snake shall we? The snake is important because of old Nordic tradition, in the ancient past the Nords used animal totems to represent their gods, these animals were the hawk, wolf, snake, moth, owl, whale, bear, fox, and the dragon.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Dragon_War

 

These animals should be well known to any Skyrim player as they appear throughout Nordic ruins. However there are three I want to talk about the most, specifically the snake, the whale, and the Hawk.

 

As you may remember the snake, the whale, and the hawk appeared on those spinning pillar puzzels. But what gods do they represent?

The Snake - Sep (The Snake): Yokudan version of Lorkhan. Shor (God of the Underworld): Nordic version of Lorkhan

The Hawk - Kyne (Kiss At the End): Nordic Goddess of the Storm. Widow of Shor and favored god of warriors.

The Whale - Tsun: Extinct Nordic god of trials against adversity. As you recall you met Tsun in Skyrim were he defended the WHALEBONE bridge.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith_in_the_Empire

Does anyone else find it fitting that the Nords would use their leader Shor, his wife Kyne, and their shield-thane Tsun as the gods to mark their burial tombs?

 

Now lets look back at another feature of the statue I mentioned before, specifically the part were the snake's mouth is open and Talos is pointing a sword at it. Furthermore let us take a look at the shrine of Akatosh as depicted in Skyrim.

 

http://www.skyrimwiki.com/images/thumb/0/01/ShrineofAkatosh.png/200px-ShrineofAkatosh.png

 

what can we see from this shrine of Akatosh?

 

We can make out a dragon's head and a dragon's wings but there is something off about his body isn't there? His body is not that of a dragon, it does not have arms or legs, it is the body of a serpent the body of a coiled snake.

 

Furthermore his mouth is open while a sword is being placed into it. Does that remind you of anything? Because it sounds a lot like the Statue of Talos were he is placed a sword into the mouth of a snake, a snake we have determined to be Lorkhan.

 

 

The discrepancy between who put Alessia into the amulet

The dual headed window in Oblivion depecting a dragon and a man

The god statues that depict a sword being placed into a snake's open mouth

 

Akatosh and Lorkhan share a lot in common, maybe because they are the same being?

 

I would now like to give you a quote from Michal Kirkbride himself

http://www.imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/AmuletAmulet.html

You guessed it. The Arena is a collection of pseudo-imagos' date=' all the way down to the core. Lorkhan is Akatosh, the Dragon God of Time is the Missing God of Change.

[/quote']

 

Akatosh, time, is Lorkhan, change

Lorkhan, chaos, is Akatosh, order

 

Seen as two, but really one.

 

Edited September 10, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Cthuloot]

Akatosh... Chief Diety of the Nine Divines and the God of Time

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Akatosh

 

Lorkhan... Creator, triskters and tester deity.

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Lorkhan

 

Not the same person... :no:

[sajuukkhar9000]

So what your saying is that, Micheal Kirkbride, one of the series foremost lore writers, who has worked with Bethesda since Morrowind, is wrong despite the fact that he actually explains why Lorkhan and Akatosh are seen as different beings?

 

 

 

Each races versions of the gods exist, and are the same god, yet are also planning against each other.

 

In the Elder Scrolls universe mortal belief effects reality, there is only one Dragon-god of time, yet each contradictory version of the Dragon-god of time exists because large enough groups of people believe that version exists.

 

The gods essentially have multiple personality disorder to the point were each personality rips itself off and gains its own body, yet still remains the being it originally was.

 

Akatosh and Lorkhan only appear to be different beings because mortals are too stupid to see the connection between space and time, between chaos and order.

Edited September 10, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000