Good AA (RPG) games

[Mudran]

Because with passing of TB almost no youtubers take time to play and make good reviews of AA games, they are obsessed with AAA publishers and failures of their studios, in better case, in worse case, there are youtubers, for whom the only indies who does exist are pixel simple games made by 1 person, and they are even attacking all middle studios for not having AAA quality, like if they would make it in lesser quality on purpose. They can apologize 1 man studio, but not 50 men studio capacity and capability. They for some reason don't see any quality in those games, they criticize them for imperfections which are fine for them in "indie" pixel games, but the moment it is bigger like Vampyr, they are criticized for limitations like the lack of jumping, like they couldn't live without it. This could lead to exhaustion of those studios, when they try to make it perfect, but without perfect engine or tools, everyone will say that it doesn't look good enough anyway, and they will not have time to make perfect system/ story, which is something their fans do care about, so they will end up without any support. Or they will remove features, which were unique - like combat system of Risen 1 - I still miss that.

 

I'm afraid that is one of the reason why the last year almost all independent small studios were bought by bigger publishers, which can be atleast neutral like if they were bought by Microsoft lead by Phil Spencer, but who knows what will happen next. Everyone is talking about publishers having money, nobody is talking about small studios and their struggles.

 

So I tried to promote atleast some of interesting games like Outward here, but it could be misused, so I'm creating this thread to hopefully promote good for some reason AA games, where you don't play them for being perfect, you play them for originality and for innovative mechanics, for being passion project, thus being even more vulnerable for critique like done by certain youtubers.

 

I know that almost all isometric games are fine, but I don't play isometric games, because I'm not so much into strategy, I know story puzzles are interesting, but I'm not so much into it, because it is very static, I know there are players who just want perfection, which is fine, if they are aware of it, if they don't attack games made for different reasons. That is maybe also one of the reason why a lot of RPG games lately don't have 3rd person view, because it is hard to do it well, but there are players who just cannot play first person view games and are OK with AA quality. I know that 3rd person view open/half open games are the hardest to make, so that is probably the reason why they take the hardest critiques. Players made it possible for games like Darksouls to be valued highly, I just wish they would do the same for RPG games - to be able to see why they are made, what is perfect there, because it is the focus, maybe to even help them to find the right focus to be the kind of games for the right audience - the same way like hardcore or combat games are now.

 

I know that reddit would be better for this, but Nexus feels more reliable.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mudran

[Mudran]

I newly discovered game called Outcast - second contact, remake of an old game. https://www.gog.com/game/outcast_second_contact

I was afraid it will have something bad, it will be boring, unplayable, because nobody was talking about it at all. But I was surprised by quite immersive scifi-fantasy world, simple, but still not that annoying UI/movement mechanics.

It gave me the feel of old RPGs games, which I didn't feel for long time - the desire to find unknown, to discover what the world will offer. I'm slow player, so I'm still at the beginning, but it looks more promising than just screenshots I saw before.

The graphic style is realistic mixed with more fantasy like stylized zones, because it is not total rework, but it makes the old engine graphics look OK, not breaking immersion.

The setting is similar to Avatar - you are some sort of soldier sent into a portal to cater scientists, only without the blue (which is sad, because blue is good), but I quite like the world so far.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Mudran

[SknTheLisper]

As you said you wanted to spread awareness here are some I know of that's good, thought they are isometric:

Expeditions: Viking - Pretty much a classical party based RPG with companions, the combat is turn based and very similar to Xcom(2 actions pr turn, you control all your characters on your turn, enemy controls theirs on their turn etc), IMO this game does companions right, and also does it the best I've ever seen. Highly because they have direct impact on certain events\quests, always have things to say about decisions and how you solve quests, but also because they may or may not do things they want to do in certain places(Such as seeing old allies then proceed to go up to them and punch them, as your companion is now loyal to you, thus creating a fight that may have been avoided, if you didn't have his companion).

Expeditions: Conquistador - Same studio as Viking, this game is older and their first RPG. Companions are less of a focus, but each recruit you choose have their own backstory and events that happen(which may help or hinder your mission). The key point of both games is that there's usually always multiple ways to solve a quest(less so in this one than Viking), so player choice is a big thing(and consequenses of your choices). Setting is as a Spanish explorer\captain going to the new world in the 16th century.

AtomRPG - Basically Russian Fallout 2. It carries it's inspiration on it's sleve, to an almost faulty amount. if one loves Fallout 1\2, and one wants more of that, this is the perfect game. The combat is pretty much the same, turn based AP based action, no direct control over companions(though you can point to enemies they should focus on, and how agressive they should be etc, also can choose their equipment and how they level up). The writing is like Fallout, a mix of comedy and seriousness. But most important is player choice, most quests have multiple ways for you to solve them, and you can be as good or as evil as you want. Some companions might not like your choices however(though very few situations would make them leave). You are activly rewarded for talking to random people(in the form of getting XP just by going trough the dialogue trees), so you're encouraged to talk to as many NPCs as you can, and not just doing quests.


Early access games:

Stellar Tactics - This one I haven't played much, as it's in Early Access(prefer to avoid story spoilers until games are released), but it's a tactical RPG set in space, where you have your own spaceship and explore different planets etc. So kind of like Mass Effect.

Exanima - Difficult combat focus Isometric action RPG. The main stick of this one is that everything is physics based. The way damage is done is calculated based on item stats and the amount of friction\force applied(so a sword will not cut just by touching someone, it has to actually have friction to it added in with it's sharpness against clothing\armor). As everything is physics based it is possible to cause enemies(or yourself) to trip, to give an easy hit against them(or you). The way the damage\combat is done, it's not uncommon to kill someone in one hit(takes just one good solid hit with an axe to the head and you're done for, unless you wear a helmet of course, in which a mace will do it). The story\campaign progression is more a dungeon crawler-like deal, I personally haven't played it much as again, early access and I wait for release. But it has an Arena mode where you slowly unlock gear and skills when leveling up.

Edited July 3, 2019 by skn

[Mudran]

Thanks :smile: AtomRPG was recommended to me by someone before, maybe I will try it one day.

 

There are some French and German studios making the same games, so I guess it is enough to go to their sites and see what are their games, so here is my most favourite from older to newest French games I played:

 

 

Mars: warlogs - the combat is a bit of pain, because you do very little damage, and it is very corridorish, but it has quite immersive story and surrounding - I liked the art style of Mars colony environment. Sadly in the sequel - The Technomancer they concentrated on the weakest part of their game - combat and it felt the same only more bugged, and it had even more corridors between larger rooms with more of combat or bigger empty city, where they clearly didn't have the time to add enough of details. Also the story was trying to be more epic, but felt more empty as well - clearly too big project for their size. I wish they would drop the action combat, making it more tactical and concentrate on developing characters, with less annoying corridors (with constantly respawning enemies). Still for some people it was good enough game.

 

in cooperation:

Of orcs and men - I guess one of the reason why this doesn't have good score is that it has the console games formula, but still if you make it interactive enough, it is a way for smaller studios how to make 3rd person view game - if it will have a good story, interesting characters and really good environment - one of the few games I finished. Corridors with some avoiding enemies and looking for armors (if I remember it correctly), tactical combat hybrid and a lot of cinematics, worked well for me.

 

The game of thrones - the old 3rd person view game, with characters from the TV series. Another problem with movie game label, but this game has really high quality of dialogues, because it was made with advices from the writer RR. Martin himself, so very good characters, superb medieval environment (one of the best I saw in games for me), a lot of dialogue choices and even quite harsh consequences. Sadly the weak part is not only half tactical combat, but mainly the bit messy skill trees x classes - some of it doesn't match and you are not told forward (or someone like me will not notice it as usually). so you will end up with broken build. Also the camera movement felt a bit clunky.

 

Recently I played Vampyr - very solid RPG game with strong characters, but it is newer version of the previous games with similar problems, only with action combat it was a bit more obvious and less forgiving, still with some guides I managed to play normal difficulty on harder mode - without drinking any blood - quite fine. Very high artistic style of old London, music, even boss fights - one of the most artistic games I played, so I was almost worried how it will be received and I have respect for the devs to release it knowing it will be a niche game and not trying to be mainstream.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Mudran

[Mudran]

I'm not sure now after I read my post if all the French games are the same or if I like them for the same reason.

 

So here is comparison to german games:

the most known are Gothic/Risen games from Pirahna Bites studio. They are the opposite - quite baren looking, even though German language is more close to English, the dialogues are usually much worse, they don't have even strong memorable NPCs, the combat is even worse, so what is the reason they have so many fans? The world building, quest design and player character development. They are the only European studio who always was doing something similar to Bethesda openworld formula, but they developed their own unique one. It is based on choices incorporated in the world, only player choose the order how the story will develop, so it does cost less because you don't skip that much, while it still does feel like a lot of choices.

The reason why I miss Risen 1 combat is combos based on ranks you learn in the weapon of your choice, while NPCs also do have the same ranking system, so you see them using the same combos like you do and you can react to that. so you have feeling of progress and a lot of player's own skills is involved in their combat.

Sadly after complains about bad combat PB decided to streamline it instead of dealing with the real problem - the biggest problem of all those smaller studios is that the combat or even movement is not smooth - so things like autointerrupt of equipping weapon by any attack of mobs, not intuitive camera locks on target, no basic autoattack and things like that are still there, but the fun part was cut off :(

[Mudran]

I quite respect ACG youtuber for covering reviews of most of AA games: https://www.youtube.com/user/AngryCentaurGaming/videos

He missed Outcast, but most of anything else is there, and then there are only smaller channels. So if there is someone else with good reviews, it could be posted here aswell.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Mudran

[jeremly5]

I quite respect ACG youtuber for covering reviews of most of AA games: https://www.youtube.com/user/AngryCentaurGaming/videos/myfirstpremiercard

He missed Outcast, but most of anything else is there, and then there are only smaller channels. So if there is someone else with good reviews, it could be posted here aswell.

I guess one of the reason why this doesn't have good score is that it has the console games formula, but still if you make it interactive enough, it is a way for smaller studios how to make 3rd person view game - if it will have a good story, interesting characters and really good environment - one of the few games I finished. Corridors with some avoiding enemies and looking for armors (if I remember it correctly), tactical combat hybrid and a lot of cinematics, worked well for me.

The game of thrones - the old 3rd person view game, with characters from the TV series. Another problem with movie game label, but this game has really high quality of dialogues, because it was made with advices from the writer RR. Martin himself, so very good characters, superb medieval environment (one of the best I saw in games for me), a lot of dialogue choices and even quite harsh consequences. Sadly the weak part is not only half tactical combat, but mainly the bit messy skill trees x classes - some of it doesn't match and you are not told forward (or someone like me will not notice it as usually). so you will end up with broken build. Also the camera movement felt a bit clunky.

[Mudran]

Greedfall is another one from what I have heard. A true RPG (in the original meaning).

[Mudran]

Well, this discussion was about games 1. which aren't really known and 2. which are the opposite of action RPG, usually mistaken for the only one which should exist.

and are listed here because of players like you - every time some RPG focused game comes out, it is attacked for not having combat they want, even though it is said the game is not about combat. While in Doom it was favourite joke that some players wanted story (I never heard about anyone but whatever) they are very serious with their demand of the opposite in games like Vampyr or Greedfall...even not recommending them for that reason...

If it is random jerks like you attacking me, I'm OK with it, but when it comes from someone proclaiming to be gaming journalist, it is a bit sad... Also proclaiming that leveling gear is RPG mechanic...

 

 

But anyway funny is that you are right - Fortnite for me is RPG game of my dreams - I dream about having truly different archetypes to play with, and having my version of RPG mechanics - which is unique skill set I can use as a tool for "roleplaying that character".

 

Also it is interesting how this discussion triggered you...

Edited October 8, 2019 by Mudran

[Mudran]

So the next RPG game is Pine https://store.steampowered.com/app/1042780/Pine/

The description sounds like something I was expecting from Outward, which turned out to be more about combat than exploring. Maybe if they would have bigger studio there could be more.

This game looks like with more of RPG mechanics with interactions with NPCs and PC generated stories. Something more advanced is used in other indie titles like Kenshi, but here it is more connected to exploration and puzzles rather than progression, squad or combat bosses.

It reminds me a lot of Outcast, only it has disney graphics, but I like the style. And people say it looks like Zelda, which I never played. Only it doesn't have voiceacting.

I'm still at the beginning, so I was just testing the camera,movement, overal feel and as usually my older PC handles those indie games better than what I read on internet.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Mudran