Speed kills?

[ctogher]

So, I posit that speed does in fact play a strong role in accident situations. I think the information presented by Theta backs this conclusion pretty well.

:huh: With reference to the posted information:

 

1] Always take with a pinch of salt anything submitted through official channels - anything can be proved using "official" figures and analysis. If desperation wants a horse, hooves will be found on an ant.

 

2] The common theme in all three posts refers blithely to "driver response to the unexpected". Surely it is the "unexpected" which is the true cause, not the speed? To illustrate I submit one or two examples of my own, (no substitue for experience here).

 

i) Driver towing a caravan overtakes without allowing sufficient space for the caravan itself - on returning to original lane simply hammers the luckless victim of of the road. At this point the caravan tips, the driver loses control, the tow bar snaps and the driver swoops across three lanes, hitting another vehicle in the fast lane, rolls over the verge and collides with oncoming traffic. All in all, 15 people dead.

 

ii) Driver of articulated vehicle tries to avoid congestion by travelling in safety lane. A quirk of this particular freeway is that the traffic department has installed speed signs in the centre of the safety lane (?). Driver realises too late his error, swerves back into traffic. +-30 dead as a result.

 

iii) In this country the "taxi", (minibus used for transport), is perhaps the biggest culprit, (overloading, unroadworthy..). Taxis stopped have been found without steering wheels, (removed to fit in extra person in front, steering by means of a monkey wrench, bald tyres, etc..). The number that have rolled and killed is surprising to say the least.

 

Finally, I have personally, (no basis in contrived statistics), witnessed some 15 accidents as a result of chamera traps. Despite denials these represent a base source of income to the traffic department. Every effort is made to camouflage traps. As a result drivers have a marked tendancy to hit anchors when the chamera flashes. Pile up anyone?

 

The examples are endless. When I say speed doesn't kill - yes, as a 'contributing' factor it must have some import. However, it has nothing to do with speed. It has everything to do with attitude, ability and common courtesy.

 

The concern here is that traffic officers are being replaced with automated systems, which the authorities will do everything in their power to sell to us because it is "cheap". The cost is that those drivers which show ignorance or have developed reckless attitudes to fellow road users will never be caught. The price for "cheap" law enforcement initiatives is the lives of the law abiding majority. :bye:

[Malchik]

The higher the impact velocity the more extreme the damage, that is a fact. Very few tigger events for accidents are caused by speed but once the trigger operates the extent of any ensuing damage will be proportional to speed of the cars involved. Therefore lower speed limits will reduce the amount of damage and fatalities. And some trigger events - say a child running into the road - may not lead to an 'accident' if the speed of the approaching cars is slow enough to let them stop in time. Therefore it should reduce the number of accidents, too.

 

BTW driving on the 'unresticted speed' autobahns in Germany is not a particularly pleasant experience. Many of them are two lanes and carry very heavy traffic with a high number of lorries (trucks in the US). In some places there are restrictions on overtaking but if one lorry travelling at 80 kph decides to overtake one travelling at 79 kph (and believe me it happens all the time) it is a long process. In the mean time all the faster traffic backs up nose to tail. Then when the blockage clears the speed increases say to 160kph. You can be keeping up with this, staying a sensible distance from the car in front, ready to go faster if circumstances allow. But the car behind you will ride your bumper (tailgating I believe it's called in the US). I have seen cars doing this at speeds of over 200 kph. You need nerves of steel unless you are used to it. However all autobahns have areas of speed restriction these days even in Germany.

 

I do find the some speed limits in the US to be rather too low though. I remember driving on 'the loneliest road in America' (IIRC I 80) in Nevada when the limit was 50 mph and in a whole morning's driving I saw half a dozen cars in total. And no, I did not stick to the speed limit.

 

IMO speed limits should not be set nationally but designed to suit the road, its usage and its condition.

[vandorssen]

I have to admit that my experience on the autobahn was rather unique. My cousin (who lives in Freiburg) told me in advance some of the things necessary to make it as pleasurable experience as possible. I didn’t set out until about 03:00 (when traffic was virtually nonexistent), and I used his car (Porsche 911 Turbo), and the weather had been very fair. That night I set out to experience the autobahn, at 260KPH. It was a peculiar feeling passing the Autobaunpolizie, and they did not so much as flinch. :D

 

And I agree with Malchick. Speed restrictions should be in place and strictly enforced, where it is warranted. I drove the same stretch of highway in Nevada, and in areas like that, or in Montana, or even certain lengths of freeway here in Minnesota, the speed regulations should more of a speed suggestion, and only an enforced restriction when conditions warrant it.

[Mojlnir]

My thanks to White Wolf, Peregrine and Malchik for making it clear that my argument in no way cited speed as the only factor for accidents, but rather an exacerbating one that is likely to increase the occurence and severity of accidents.

 

Speed factors into all accidents, regardless of severity. High rates of speed will cause a car to flip more times, cross more lanes of traffic, plow through medians more easily and any other number of things that can make the situation worse, as Malchik pointed out.

 

Here's a simple experiment for those of you who remain non-believers:

 

1. Walk into a wall...take note of how much it hurt.

2. Back up from the wall and run at it as hard as you can...take not of pain.

3. Write me back and tell me if you still think speed doesn't matter.

[Peregrine]

Exactly right. In addition to the reaction time and stopping distance problems that make avoiding danger much more difficult at high speeds, just look at basic physics:

 

Kinetic energy = 1/2 (mass) x (velocity^2)

 

Notice the velocity squared. Even small increases in speed can have a major effect on kinetic energy. And guess how that kinetic energy gets removed if you get into trouble..... By smashing your car, innocent people, nearby objects, other cars, etc.

[Malchik]

Shadow of the Fallen's post deleted. It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject. Don't try to test boundaries or you'll soon be beyond them!

[Breton Thief Oriana]

Kinetic energy = 1/2 (mass) x (velocity^2)

 

Right, meaning more dangerous, but not at the breaking point between danger and safety. Instead, it only means that IF there was an auto accident that it would increase damage at high speeds. Hmm, inirtia can have an affect on accidents too, and, with increased speed, the brakes (Unballanced force needed to stop the car from motion) would require more energy and time to stop the car. (Which, I guess you alreddy said...)

[Ancalagon]

I was in an accident a while back, I truly got to see energy in motion. The spped that we were traveling at was completly unappropriate for the road (it was a two lane country road, by country I mean corners that you have to take at 35 mph, we were pushing 65 mph...).

 

Also, the major factor by which the driver and I survived was the fact that we did not hit anything when the car rolled three times (came close to wrapping the car around an oak, but missed by less than a foot), that would have brought the car to a complete stop. My father, who is a Peace officer as well as a Fire Chief, stated that had we hit the tree the impact would have killed us instantly. The fact is, one cannot go from 60 mph to a dead stop and expect to survive. There is such a thing called inertia.

 

Moreso, I understand that you can be killed in an accident if your car is going only 35 mph. (This is if you come to a dead stop, i.e hitting something). Again, this illustrates the point that inertia plays a HUGE role in fatal accidents involving high speeds. Another example, suppose you are in a bus (this is a real obvious one) and the bus is doing about 70 mph on a road. If you are standing in the center aisle and the bus comes to a dead stop, from 70 to 0 instantly, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what would happen.

 

Again, I give you Inertia...

[ctogher]

Here's a simple experiment for those of you who remain non-believers:

 

1. Walk into a wall...take note of how much it hurt.

2. Back up from the wall and run at it as hard as you can...take not of pain.

3. Write me back and tell me if you still think speed doesn't matter.

^_^ Ok... to take this a step further:

 

1] Take one inbred homicidal maniac

2] Arm with .38 revolver loaded with APR ammo

3] Have said maniac point weapon at head

4] Shout "FIRE!"

5] Take note of nothing because you are now dead...

 

Thus, gentlemen, we can conclude that your death has nothing to do with the maniac or the weapon and everything to do with the speed of the round, its kinetic energy and your heads inertia! :blink:

 

Guns dont kill! Bullets do... :lol:

 

The speed may be the bullet, but has nothing to do with the with the reason for it hitting you.... :bleh:

[Peregrine]

Thus, gentlemen, we can conclude that your death has nothing to do with the maniac or the weapon and everything to do with the speed of the round, its kinetic energy and your heads inertia!

 

No, in that case the kinetic energy is irrelevant. But how many traffic deaths are a result of intentional attacks? Not too many. When you're talking about accidents, things like reaction time, braking distance, and impact energy have a lot do do with how likely they are to occur, and how much damage they cause. All of these things are affected significantly by speed.