Bizarre Poison Apple Problems

[EmperorGarm]

Hello good people!

 

This isn't a mod related question but I'm hoping for some help. I have a Nord character and I created a "createfullactorcopy" clone version of him in Olav's bar in Burma, just to fill the place up and to kind of give him a home. He didn't look the way I wanted to I console'd killed him and made another. I leave and do some quests and return to find that all the regulars, including the fence Ongar, the World-Weary are gone. I have no idea why they're gone so I go and console them back to life via...

 

prid <reference ID>

enable

resurrect 1

moveto player

 

I bring them back and their life bar is quickly depleting just like they had a poison apple and they die. I regular "resurrect" them and they quickly die again. I "resurrect 1" them back to life and they live for awhile, lifebar does not deplete, then die while they're in another cell. Sometimes the lifebar begins to deplete or they die immediately when I enter a cell they're occupying, even though there was no poison apple in their inventory.

 

It's rather bizarre. As far as I know, there were never any poison apples in Olav's bar. However, my character clone did have them on his person. But how did all these NPC's get a hold of them?

 

Anyhow, is there anyway for me to bring these characters back to life and keep them alive? I understand that the poison apple is essentially part of the script, so if there any way to cleanse it from there? Is there a mod that can help with this? I've looked around but can't find anything. I like using Ongar as a fence as he's easy to find. It's not a game breaker, but it does diminish my enjoyment a bit. I wanted a full bar of Nords and instead I've killed them. >:(

 

Thanks in advance!

[Striker879]

A number of the game's NPCs have eat packages but no food. The low responsibility ones, like for example Ongar, will often pick pocket their meal. If your clone was holding a bunch of poisoned apples then Ongar may have pilfered some.

 

Another possible explanation comes courtesy of the UESP Wiki for Olav's Tap and Tack Bugs section:

Fights will frequently break out when guests try to eat at Olav's Tap and Tack. This is due to the fact that Olav's is owned by a faction consisting only of Olav and the guests were omitted from it.

This bug is fixed by the Unofficial Oblivion Patch.

I myself have never seen fights breaking out in my own non UOP game.

[EmperorGarm]

A number of the game's NPCs have eat packages but no food. The low responsibility ones, like for example Ongar, will often pick pocket their meal. If your clone was holding a bunch of poisoned apples then Ongar may have pilfered some.

 

Another possible explanation comes courtesy of the UESP Wiki for Olav's Tap and Tack Bugs section:

Fights will frequently break out when guests try to eat at Olav's Tap and Tack. This is due to the fact that Olav's is owned by a faction consisting only of Olav and the guests were omitted from it.

This bug is fixed by the Unofficial Oblivion Patch.

I myself have never seen fights breaking out in my own non UOP game.

 

Even if Ongar pickpoketed the poison apples, how did he distribute them to the other NPCs? Or are ou saying that the poisoned and dead people were all the sneaky, pickpocket types?

 

Is there any known fix for resurrecting dead poisoned NPCs?

[Striker879]

I believe Ongar is the only one I've seen pickpocketing food at Olav's. Before you 'resurrect 1' the dead NPCs make sure you check their inventory and take any poisoned apples from them. I'd also suggest deleting your clone (deletefullactorcopy) before you leave, at least for testing purposes. Spend three full days away from Bruma and see if things are back to normal. If it is OK then create your clone again. As soon as you create him kill him using the console command 'kill' (with his refID displayed at the top of the screen of course). Take all his poisoned apple from him and then 'resurrect 1' him.

 

One of the problems I found in using clones to populate the world was they don't have any AI packages ... they just stand there. You can temporarily remedy this with the console command 'addscriptpackage a3a59' (a basic wander current location package) but it will only stay in effect while you are in the same cell. If you exit Olav's and then come back in the door you'll need to reapply the package ... an immersion breaker and pain in the butt to say the least. You'll be far more satisfied if you crack open the Construction Set and place some new NPCs with a basic wander package. That's exactly how I got started ... from cloner to creator.

[EmperorGarm]

I believe Ongar is the only one I've seen pickpocketing food at Olav's. Before you 'resurrect 1' the dead NPCs make sure you check their inventory and take any poisoned apples from them. I'd also suggest deleting your clone (deletefullactorcopy) before you leave, at least for testing purposes. Spend three full days away from Bruma and see if things are back to normal. If it is OK then create your clone again. As soon as you create him kill him using the console command 'kill' (with his refID displayed at the top of the screen of course). Take all his poisoned apple from him and then 'resurrect 1' him.

 

One of the problems I found in using clones to populate the world was they don't have any AI packages ... they just stand there. You can temporarily remedy this with the console command 'addscriptpackage a3a59' (a basic wander current location package) but it will only stay in effect while you are in the same cell. If you exit Olav's and then come back in the door you'll need to reapply the package ... an immersion breaker and pain in the butt to say the least. You'll be far more satisfied if you crack open the Construction Set and place some new NPCs with a basic wander package. That's exactly how I got started ... from cloner to creator.

 

That sounds like fun, actually. I should finish this game first though. This is my third attempt to play the game but through two separate complete computer failures, I've lost long game sessions. I'm one of those who likes to finish as many of the quests as I can find, regardless of the rewards.

 

One of the biggest issues I have with the base game is how sparse the cities are, but in general, I find this true with most games. My other favorite fantasy game is Dragon Age: Origins, which have these big, beautiful cities but only about fifty people in them. I don't need them all to talk, but when you have this wide open space and virtually no people in there, well, it takes away from the game a bit.

 

Oblivion is no different.

 

One thing I've been having fun doing is killing generic NPC's (Mage Apprentice, guards...), stripping them down, then placing different clothes, armor on them, the "resurrect 1". I leave the cell and return and the game gives them the wardrobe upgrade. Now, the guards don't look like cookie cutter cut outs, which is nice, and you're not always sure who's a guard, which is also nice.

[Striker879]

Part of the problem with the sparseness of the game (especially true of the Imperial City) is that quite a few have travel packages that take them to other cities. Those NPCs aren't marked as essential in the most part, so if they are unfortunate enough to be travelling through a cell adjacent to your character or in a different part of your current cell they can fall victim to bandits and wildlife. On my first play through, after I'd learned about the console commands, I'd 'resurrect 1' them if I found their dead body (the 'Paramedics of Cyrodiil'). It wasn't until I created my second character that I realized how many of the IC citizens I was missing in my first game (if I didn't find their body before a cell reset they were gone without a trace).

 

In that second character's game I've gone through each city's citizens using the UESP Wiki and on any with travel packages I used the console to make them essential. Now I'll often get a 'So-in-so is unconscious' message while I'm travelling. Sometimes I'll drop what I'm doing and put on my 'Protector of Travellers' hat, or other times just ignore the message in full knowledge they can't die and will eventually make their way back home. Why Bethesda spent all that time and effort at creating NPCs and their AI packages just to leave them to the mercy of the cruel cruel world I'll never understand.

 

I use your method of changing NPC's clothes/armor as well. It saves the trouble of finding the baseID of the item I want to give them (more of a problem with mod added items) and the baseID of their current inventory. Many of those travelers I mentioned in my first guy's game would 'wake up' to find themselves sporting a nice shiny weapon to help them help themselves next time they got jumped. Then there's the ladies who now have somehow 'misplaced' certain 'items' from their inventory ... who knows how that could have happened?

 

- Edit - Something to be aware of in the case of the Mage apprentices and couriers (and possibly the legion riders) is that their inventory resets. If you give them rare or mod added items you'll lose them.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Striker879

[EmperorGarm]

Part of the problem with the sparseness of the game (especially true of the Imperial City) is that quite a few have travel packages that take them to other cities. Those NPCs aren't marked as essential in the most part, so if they are unfortunate enough to be travelling through a cell adjacent to your character or in a different part of your current cell they can fall victim to bandits and wildlife. On my first play through, after I'd learned about the console commands, I'd 'resurrect 1' them if I found their dead body (the 'Paramedics of Cyrodiil'). It wasn't until I created my second character that I realized how many of the IC citizens I was missing in my first game (if I didn't find their body before a cell reset they were gone without a trace).

 

In that second character's game I've gone through each city's citizens using the UESP Wiki and on any with travel packages I used the console to make them essential. Now I'll often get a 'So-in-so is unconscious' message while I'm travelling. Sometimes I'll drop what I'm doing and put on my 'Protector of Travellers' hat, or other times just ignore the message in full knowledge they can't die and will eventually make their way back home. Why Bethesda spent all that time and effort at creating NPCs and their AI packages just to leave them to the mercy of the cruel cruel world I'll never understand.

 

I use your method of changing NPC's clothes/armor as well. It saves the trouble of finding the baseID of the item I want to give them (more of a problem with mod added items) and the baseID of their current inventory. Many of those travelers I mentioned in my first guy's game would 'wake up' to find themselves sporting a nice shiny weapon to help them help themselves next time they got jumped. Then there's the ladies who now have somehow 'misplaced' certain 'items' from their inventory ... who knows how that could have happened?

 

- Edit - Something to be aware of in the case of the Mage apprentices and couriers (and possibly the legion riders) is that their inventory resets. If you give them rare or mod added items you'll lose them.

 

I almost never spend time on actual roads so I don't come across dead characters, but you've left me wondering just how much I'm missing out this playthrough.

 

I've found that the time I've spent on the guards has been wasted. For some reason after a few days they reset or respawn back to generic, which is a terrible shame. I had been going around bandit and vampire caves collecting large sums of clothing, armor and weapons to give these guys some personality, only to see them boring-downed back to normal.

 

So yeah, I wish I had read your edited note before I found this out the hard way. I wanted to give it to the generic's specifically because they're so f***ing boring to look at each time you walk through the place. I had one of those "Oh, I missed two. How did that happen?" and then while going around to collect items for those two, everyone else reset. What a shame.

 

Once I'm done with this playthrough, I'm going to have fun finding some mods that address issues as the vanilla game has some detriments to it. Ive played Civ IV: Beyond the Sword and Dragon Age: Orgins for about three years without ever feeling the "need" to spice it up, but this time around, for a game this large, it has the feel of being sparsely populated (partially due to the lack of voice acting variance), and when the game levels up with you, it levels out a fair number of the creates you encounter along with equipment. That means that you'll see a new batch of enemies, armor and weapons, but you lose the old batch in the process and so you get a little eye-bored.

 

I'm sure these are all old complaints, but they are ones that I have now. It's doubtful that there will be much more to this run. Over 100 quests have been completed and the itch is growing to get to the end.

 

I wonder if that "essential" trick you mentioned will help with my Ongar poison apple problem. As it stands now, if I want to use him, I have to "resurrect 1" him every time I see him (he's alive, but as soon as I enter the cell, his life bar diminishes to death). I'll give it a shot. I would like to bring back some of the Dark Brotherhood people I poisoned during the purification to give that place a bit more life, but not if I have to resurrect them every time I go back.

 

And yes, I like your lady idea, but I figure to find something that will spice them up too.

[Striker879]

The essential trick will keep Ongar alive, but he may keep falling down unconscious on you. When you 'resurrect 1' him does his health start to drop again or is he alright until next time you enter the cell?

[EmperorGarm]

The essential trick will keep Ongar alive, but he may keep falling down unconscious on you. When you 'resurrect 1' him does his health start to drop again or is he alright until next time you enter the cell?

 

Ongar is fine until I reenter the cell. If I do a normal "resurrect" his health will begin to deplete immediately, but if I do "resurrect 1" he's fine until I leave the cell and return. It's annoying to say the least. I like using him not just as a fence, but as a merchant to sell to because he's easy to find and available pretty much all day every day. Combined with the Burma house that's next door to the bar he frequents, he's very convenient. I'm about to give it a shot now.

 

__________________

 

Okay, it seems to be working okay. At first, when made essential and you occupy the same cell as them, they fall unconscious over and over again. But once I left and returned, their health bar was at its lowest level, but was not going down and forcing them back to unconsciousness. I'd want to see how it works long term, but for now, this seems to be a workable fix.

 

I did this with Ongar then brought back the Dark Brotherhood back to life in the Sanctuary. Three or four of the six were poison apple'd to death but it seems to be working alright with them as well. So long as it doesn't get annoying with them falling unconscious perpetually and getting those messages, this seems to work out nicely and now the Sanctuary has a lot of people in it.

 

I'll post more when I have more interactions with both factions to see if it works, if there are any unintended consequences,

[Striker879]

Once you have finished the Dark Brotherhood questline the Cheydinhal sanctuary will be inhabited again. Not sure how the new ones will get along with the old ones. More info on the new ones from the UESP Wiki: Arquen and the Dark Brotherhood Murders.