The pitfalls of Lore Friendly

[Moksha8088]

The game is entirely fictional and a demand for lore-friendliness can be a stranglehold on the creative process. Just the other day I read of a poster proclaiming he would avoid some mod because it was not lore-friendly. It was like he had locked himself in a thought strait-jacket and was deliberately denying himself the enjoyment of a good mod just for some obsession over this concept. Fretting over lore created in some back room of Bethesda over a beer and pizza... wait, did I say pizza? Now I will need to search Super-Duper Mart for some frozen pizza from before the Great War.

 

What are your thoughts on this issue?

[acidzebra]

People who are ultra-focused on THE LOOOOORE amuse me - they tend to have a very rigid and immutable concept of something that Bethesda itself treats as something that should never get into the way of their storytelling with revamps and ignored bits and "dragon breaks" and inconsistencies galore.

 

Then again, what these people do or don't put into their games doesn't affect me so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Novem99]

But we do all agree that lightsabers aren't that lore friendly?

[acidzebra]

But we do all agree that lightsabers aren't that lore friendly?

 

Who knows what crazy contraptions the Dwemer have come up with :)

[Moraelin]

Most things panned as not lore conform seem to come from people who haven't played any other TES games, and in some cases even much of Skyrim, but deduced by some unexplained brain-fart that whatever they personally like or dislike is respectively lore-conform or not lore conform.

 

Point in case, for the "OMG lore-breaking outfits" gang, in TES Battlespire you could literally wear a plate bra or a miniskirt. See the attachments. Actually those aren't even the worst offenders. You could actually literally wear a chest piece consisting of two loose wire spirals, one over each breast. And a micro-skirt.

 

There were also NPC babes running around wearing just a loincloth. And by that I really mean only that. They were barefoot and topless. (I'm not attaching that pic in the forum for the obvious reason:p)

 

 

It wasn't the only one either. The whole series STARTED with TES Arena which featured a woman with a katana and a minimal bikini front and centre. Again, see attachment.

 

You were also greeted right at the character creation screen by your character wearing tight stretch pants and pumps.

 

The national female attire of Hammerfell, if you went there, also seemed to be basically less cloth than in Leia slave outfit. I'm not kidding. See attachment.

 

 

Now mind you, I'm not saying anyone should LIKE those outfits. I prefer to not risk frostbite on my Skyrim character myself. But anyone reaching for the "OMG not lore friendly" silliness is just demonstrating right there and then that they're not qualified to be having a discussion about lore in the first place.

[Moraelin]

But we do all agree that lightsabers aren't that lore friendly?

Have you looked at a vanilla bound sword recently? If I actually gave a flip about obeying lore, I assure you I could make a "bound rapier" that is using that exact texture and is quite indistinguishable from a lightsaber. Or I could go even more lore-conform and call it a "bound katana", since in all TES games before Oblivion katanas were straight :tongue:

[succubin]

"lore-friendly" is just a part of cancer. I'd add more words: "realistic", "survival", "canonical", "immersive". It is not about what exactly it is, but how it was done.

 

If it is light saber, it would fit into the game just fine, if it looks like a piece of dwemer technology, but not a prop straight from star wars.

 

If it is a race of equine humanoids, they should have a style like khajits and argonians, not like they were ripped from some cartoon for kids.

 

Also, some vanilla things are crime against aesthetics, just look at skyrim scimitar.

 

I think you got my point.

[Moksha8088]

Mod reviewer MxR asked three pertinent questions in many of his reviews:

 

1. Is it lore-friendly?

2. Is it immersive?

3. Is it slooty?

 

Actually, he asked the first two questions in a rhetorical manner knowing that the answer was unimportant, but he did find slooty to be a desirable quality in mods he personally liked.

 

I think it was the Imperial bard, Ralph Waldo Emerson of Cyrodiil, who suggested that lore-friendliness was the draugr of little minds.

[jjb54]

I've read and re-read and found the dialog fun.

 

Here is the thing: Imagine taking Harry Potter World and add Star Wars Stormtroopers and ATAT and and the battle from the Ice World HOTH.

... Be honest - would that work? IF we were honest, no ... it would not fit. Granted it would be " funny ", ( maybe ) .. but it would simply be " wrong ".

 

Take the Jurassic World Movies and add Star Trek, the future of Dino's that evolved into space traveling, intelligent creatures. Or Luke Skywalker w/a Lightsaber taking on the dino's. Would it work? IF we were totally honest, no .. it would NOT work or fit. Funny, maybe .. but ....

 

Take the Halloween Movies - and add, oh, say .... the Smurfs. We would, IF we were honest go, " WTF????? " Oh, we might laugh and such. But in the end ... we would not go, " .. ya that worked! "

 

Or .. take GoT. Now add, Star War Stormtroopers, Klingons and Jean Luc Picard and Darth Vader.

Again, we might find it " funny " ... but if we were serious. NO, that would simply NOT work or belong. The story has it's own foundation and settings.

 

The bottom line is - this is a world that was created based on some stories, myths and here is the big part: It's NOT Earth, nor does it have anything to do with Earth, Star Wars, Star Trek and so on ... this is a world that is, FICTIONAL, but it has a story a foundation .......

[Moraelin]

The real bottom line is that it's a single player game, and what makes sense for you to be in there is not necessarily the same that makes sense for me. You're essentially trying to argue what _I_ wouldn't find immersive or serious in a combination. And really, you don't know that.

 

Point in case, nirnroot exists both in Skyrim and Fallout 4, so that would make a plausible point that both are the same universe or parallel versions of the same. Meanwhile, as per the Fallout 2 lore and that crashed shuttle, the Fallout universe is a parallel universe to the Star Trek one, and quite possible to cross over. Which would put Klingons and Romulans for example either in the same universe as Skyrim or a parallel one, in a multiverse where, again, it's possible to cross over.

 

That all is based on ACTUAL stuff that exists in those games, which is to say, actual lore. As opposed to the whole "whatever I like is lore" that most of the silly lore police gang are doing.

 

So it actually makes perfect sense to me that I could play an Orion with a bat'leth, that got put there by Q, as part of his elaborate pranks. I assure you I can take that very seriously.

 

You can't? Well, then definitely don't donload that bat'leth.

 

But please stop trying to tell me what _I_ can't take seriously :tongue: