Hearthfire is out for PC!

[JanusForbeare]

Actually, the idea was Bethesda's to begin with. This was developed a long time ago and shown during the DICE video.

 

I don't remember disputing that. We weren't debating where the idea came from, we were debating which demographic the idea was targeting.

 

I'm sorry you can't see the benefit's to PC players, but that's YOUR issue, and a pretty uncreative stance.

 

It is my issue - as I said before, this argument is essentially about people's opinions. As for it being an uncreative stance... well, not really, as you'll see below.

 

I'm not going to list all my ideas because quite frankly someone will run with them, but basically for people with good 3d modeling and texturing ability but poor scripting ability, Bethesda just gave them a pretty big canvas to create some really cool things.

 

Added to the number of items created specifically for house building and you have a lot of potential for "realism" mods. Then there's the whole adoption thing, which not only added the adoption feature itself, but allowed children to have toys, and much more interesting, change outfits. Meaning instead of having to worry about how the scripting would work, 3d modelers can now add an entire line of clothing for children instead of having them all run around in the same outfits.

 

Scripting is not hard to learn. Papyrus a very straightforward system - I have no background in programming or coding, but I picked up the basics in a matter of weeks. The more I mod, the more I learn, and I find that it becomes easier and easier to write complex scripts every day. Also, from what I've seen, very little of the game's hardcoding has changed in HF. This means that most, if not all, of the content added by Hearthfire could be replicated by a somewhat competent modder. In the 11 months since the game was first released (not a long time by modding standards), our community has developed a series of mods that approximate, and in some cases, exceed what Bethesda has done in Hearthfire.

 

For instance:

 

Adopt a Child is a mod that allows players to, as the name suggests, adopt the children at the Honorhall Orphanage. It's more versatile than Hearthfire in that the children can be recruited as followers and are not restricted to vanilla houses (they also don't creepily show up in their underwear, as has been reported with HF). They'll play games and do all the things children normally do.

 

Tundra Defense allows players to construct settlements piece-by-piece, rather than restricting them to the linear, set piece designs that HF does. While the emphasis here is on fortifications, not Sims-esque housekeeping, the concept could certainly be extended to a more domestic mod.

 

These are just examples of what modders could already accomplish before HF; it is not supposed to be a definitive list of mods that replicate every feature. While it's true that Hearthfire adds features that we don't have mod equivalents for (children bringing home pets, toys, new outfits for kids), that is only because modders haven't had the time or inclination to develop them - more often the latter than the former.

 

Ultimately, saying that Hearthfire offers more opportunities by reducing the emphasis on scripting sounds like a hollow argument. I am certainly not going to download mod after mod that only makes cosmetic changes based on cookie-cutter designs - I'm going to download mods of substance, and I know for a fact that a great many of the Nexus' users feel the same way.

[vinh834]

So bacially Hearthfire casues any area that has added navmesh that is in the same area as hearthfire to become unstable?

[Georgiegril]

To clarify, my irritation comes not from feeling that I must alter MY mod (not sure if I even do) but having to buy a particular DLC in order to run other mods I was using with no problems prior to the release, and that are not particularly related to Hearthfire except for the compatibility problem HF created. I would feel differently about a mod that was created based on the Heathtfire content, and certainly if modders do make use of HF as Stemin suggests they might, that would be a positive reason, in my mind to purchase it. I look forward to seeing what modders do, and I hope that in the end my current reservations are proven to be unjustified.

[Tarm]

Scripting is not hard to learn. Papyrus a very straightforward system - I have no background in programming or coding, but I picked up the basics in a matter of weeks.

 

This is where you lose many ordinary TES players and small time modders who only fire up the CK to change the hair of a follower or some such small thing.

If it take more than a day or two to learn something it might as well be rocket science because a very small percentage of folks will prevail in their attempts to learn.

 

So bacially Hearthfire casues any area that has added navmesh that is in the same area as hearthfire to become unstable?

 

Hearthfire messes with vanilla houses with the navmesh so most mods that alter vanilla houses have a conflict.

Also mods that affect the building sites does conflict. There's a growing list but I'm too pissed drunk to add this. Just a link to where you can find somewhat current information. http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2960366

[AxlRocks]

Scripting is not hard to learn. Papyrus a very straightforward system - I have no background in programming or coding, but I picked up the basics in a matter of weeks.

 

I'm going to disagree here in particular. I got the hang of Oblivion scripting in a matter of days, not weeks, and when I didn't know something, learning it new at the CS wiki wasn't something I dreaded. With future games, only features were added, and therefore, I caught onto how the new features worked quickly enough. With Skyrim, there is a massive amount of new functions and more options. Awesome. However, the user friendly aspect of previous scripting languages of Beth games did not carry over. User friendliness and functionality/usefulness/power CAN go together. Everything you do with Skyrim's scripting has to be defined, referenced, and probably defined and referenced again somewhere else. All I want to do is add an item to the player, can I just use this:

 

ScriptName IHeartGold

Begin OnActivate
Player.AddItem Gold001 1
End

 

No, instead, let's do this:

 

ScriptName IHeartGold extends objectReference

MiscObject Property Gold001Again  Auto  

Event OnActivate(ObjectReference akActionRef)
Game.GetPlayer().AddItem(Gold001Again, 1, false)
EndEvent

 

I did the exact same thing with that script, except not only is there clearly more to remember and deal with, but I have to define what object I'm added, as if Gold001 by itself is not good enough. As well, the only change in that script which actually made any real impact is that I get to define if there is a message or not. Now, granted, this isn't going to take but an extra 30 seconds at worse once you have it all down, but does that change that it wasn't broken in the first place?

 

I'm also no coder or programmer, but usually those who have gotten Papyrus down either act as if I'm wrong or even know nothing about scripting in general. I only have but one mod to show, which I did get help with because I was new, but I did do mods personally whether anyone wants to believe it or not. However, even if not for that, newcomers don't always have the time to learn the scripting in a matter of weeks like you or I. Adding items is one thing, but the more you want to do, the worse it gets, whereas in Oblivion/F3/NV, you could make the same mod with nearly, or even all if you get slightly clever, the same features in far less time. (Learning from the ground up in both.)

 

Because of that, I truly think Papyrus is one of the main inhibitors for many who want to make a mod, especially for newcomers.

Edited October 7, 2012 by AxlRocks

[Perraine]

Just a few tips ...

 

The current "land" options seem to be from cities that don't currently have player homes available, however that MAY change with future updates/DLC or player made mods

 

You DO NOT have to become thane to get the purchase option. You MAY have to perform 1 x generic "kill x bandit" quest or something like that to gain the Yarls "favor" ... And you have to visit a major town to get the courier to spawn in the first place. (just like word wall couriers) then read the letters

 

You DO NOT have to carry all the building materials yourself. You can simply ask your new Housecarl to "purchase building materials" for you

 

You DO NOT have to become thane to appoint a Housecarl. Unless you want one of the provided "new" Housecarls, otherwise you can ask one of your current Housecarls to take over your new home (Lydia was an obvious choice, as Breezhome is quite small and doesn't really need a Housecarl.)

 

Hearthfire has added a HUGE amount of scope for modders (both experienced and new as pointed out previously) it also make considerable changes to NPC AI that are a big improvement (something that has been continuously asked for by the community) So it's not "just a console thing" If you play it for a while you'll see just how much is going to be creatable with these new tools/assets/scripts.

 

Finally, let's not forget that Bugthesda are creating DLC for the vast majority of players (and yes that includes console players) who run "vanilla" Skyrim, so they can't really be held accountable because a small number (in the overall scheme of things) of people who run "x" mod have a problem.