Texturing approach used in Skyrim?

[Hagroth]

Hey,

 

I'm making a Viking ship for potential use in Skyrim, and since it's my first model I'm not completely sure how to approach the texturing. Since it's a ship, it's going to be pretty large in the game world, which means I'll probably need to use multi subobject texture tiling (my 8192x8192 UVW map still wouldn't do - check this out: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1680620, so I need another approach rather than trying to cover it all in one huge 8192x8192 map), but I might still use UVW-mapping for certain parts that require more precise detail like the dragon's head etc.

 

Anyway, my question is if a combination of these approaches will work for exporting the model into Skyrim? What kind of approach do the larger Skyrim models use (such as buildings and ships etc.)?

 

Thanks in advance!

[ghosu]

Why not just cut it into pieces and use several textures? Like one for the outer hull/planks, one for the deck, one for detailed sctructures and so on...just very long parts may need a big texture but maybe it would even work if you use seamless textures on the planks and repeat 'em. And for the other parts you can use smaller textures. Edited October 10, 2012 by ghosu

[Hagroth]

Why not just cut it into pieces and use several textures? Like one for the outer hull/planks, one for the deck, one for detailed sctructures and so on...just very long parts may need a big texture but maybe it would even work if you use seamless textures on the planks and repeat 'em. And for the other parts you can use smaller textures.

You mean several Unwrap UVW maps? Well, the general consensus on most forums I've asked on was that it'd be better and more economic with the video memory to just have some 1024x1024 or 2048x2048 textures (not UVW) and just apply them to the model in 3ds max, rather than using huge UVW maps. Or are you saying it would be better to have like eight 2048x2048 UVW maps rather than two 8192x8192 UVW maps (because the 8192x8192 only covered half my model, and even then the texture looks grainy up close, which is relevant as the model will be large in comparison to the player in game)?

[doctorhr2]

I've been looking at the interiors for both Oblivion and Skyrim (large spaces with hi-res detail) and they seem to have been modelled as one object and then seperated into pieces, so each piece has its own texture map rather than trying to cope with a whole room in one texture map.

 

I've had a huge learning curve with 3d Studio MAx and modelling for mods. I had assumed that for a game engine to properly utilise a model, the model had to be a single mesh; but it would appear not.

 

I would make your pirate ship as one mesh, then select and detach polygons into groups and then UV Unwrap them. This way you can have four 1024x1024 maps on different parts of the model if needed.

 

The in-game textures are only 1024x1024 at the most, so why would you need to go higher? Ghosu's advice is the one I would go with as that's how Betheda do it.

Edited October 10, 2012 by doctorhr2

[ghosu]

This is what i mean.

[Perraine]

There are ships already in Skyrim (the Emperors ship is fairly well detailed IIRC) So why not just open up the CK and have a look at how they are textured?

[Hagroth]

All right, but if I split the ship up like that, I'd probably need 20 or so 1024x1024 (I always mean "Unwrap UVW" when I refer to "UVW maps") UVW maps to avoid it looking grainy. So basically, I could make 1/4 or 1/2 of the deck one UVW map, and one side of the "railing" another UVW map, the mast and the sail one UVW map and so on? Would for example 8 1024x1024 UVW maps be better than one huge 8192x8192 UVW map for the same parts, even though it's the same amount of pixels? The models already in the game all use UVW maps, not multi subobject materials, tiling and the likes?

 

Perraine, I suppose that's a good idea. The reason I haven't is because I haven't even touched my PC copy of Skyrim yet, and I'm not the least acquainted with the CK. But I suppose I could give it a shot later today.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Hagroth

[doctorhr2]

All right, but if I split the ship up like that, I'd probably need 20 or so 1024x1024 (I always mean "Unwrap UVW" when I refer to "UVW maps") UVW maps to avoid it looking grainy. So basically, I could make 1/4 or 1/2 of the deck one UVW map, and one side of the "railing" another UVW map, the mast and the sail one UVW map and so on? Would for example 8 1024x1024 UVW maps be better than one huge 8192x8192 UVW map for the same parts, even though it's the same amount of pixels? The models already in the game all use UVW maps, not multi subobject materials, tiling and the likes?

 

Perraine, I suppose that's a good idea. The reason I haven't is because I haven't even touched my PC copy of Skyrim yet, and I'm not the least acquainted with the CK. But I suppose I could give it a shot later today.

 

 

I'd unpack a pirate ship model and load the mesh into 3DS Max and also have a look at the DDS textures in photoshop. Once you get your head around how Bethesda go about texturing their models, it will all click into place. The advantage with using X amount of 1024x1024 maps over one HUGE map (aside from the possible issues it may cause ingame) is the you can re-use different maps elsewhere on the model.

 

How do you know it's going to look grainy? As I said before... the max size of map that Bethesda use is 1024x1024, and they are fine.

 

I would really REALLY urge you to use an unpacker and spend an evening learning how the models in game have been put together as it will help you so much when it comes to making your own. I'm going to have a similar issue to you shortly as I'm creating a whole custom interior which is going to be HUGE... no idea how I'm going to go about texturing that yet!

 

Keep us posted as to how you get on.

[ghosu]

They just use the same texture over and over again, i often use the same method with basic materials like metal, wood, stone or whatever.

 

The ship model is created out of several meshes that use a 1024 px or even smaller texture spammed over the whole surface. So if you have a very long mesh you don't need a 8k texture, you don't need 4x2k or 8x1k either - you just need 1x1024 if you model your mesh properly.

 

Lets just take one mesh from the ship model:

 

http://666kb.com/i/c7zs6ep6jxqiaw5pt.jpg

 

This is a very huge part ingame, looks good from far away AND close up - but it just uses this simple 1024 texture, seamless so you can spam it all over the whole big mesh:

 

http://666kb.com/i/c7zs9qecxeda43b3l.jpg

 

The UV Map looks like this (right side):

 

http://666kb.com/i/c7zsaw4clhibqdsdt.jpg

 

It is BIGGER than the texture so it repeats the texture over and over again. If it would be as big as the texture the WHOLE texture would be projected over the mesh only ONCE. This would look terrible, especially in close up. When you even scale up the UV map more the texture would repeat itself more often so you would get even more details.

 

Same with all the other parts, i didn't check out the real components, i just took a look on the whole model and highlighted the areas i would use as mesh with the same texture.

 

http://666kb.com/i/c7zse5it9prbf31td.jpg

 

This is just an example, the real model might use different parts...so in MY case you would need 6 meshes, each one would use ONE 1024 texture over and over again.

 

Lets take the shields as example. There are not 30 meshes that all use the same texture. There is not one mesh with a texture that contains 30x the same shield paint. There is one big mesh of all 30 shields using one texture of one shield but the UV map is bigger than the texture so it repeats itself over and over again. There is even an option in NifSkope to repeat the texture on a mesh - if you don't scale up the UV map (UV SCALE x:1 y:1 = repeat texture (x/y axes) once on the mesh)

 

And in this example you might add one more mesh with objects that don't use a seamless texture or need unique details. Like the pink area i highlighted...could use unique textures, not a seamless one. And maybe one for the ropes and so on...

 

 

 

greetings

Edited October 10, 2012 by ghosu

[doctorhr2]

Beautifully illustrated, Ghosu. It's a hard concept to try to explain! Also if your texture is high enough quality and it looks like whatever material it is meant to look like, then no one will mind repetition of textures (if they even notice!). Invest time in your normal maps and specular maps as they really can make the difference.