Daemonjax Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 What he meant was: You save before taking a 95% shot.You miss, and think that's BS so you reload.You miss again, so you reload again.Guess what? You miss again. WTF? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichthyic Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 ^^and what HE meant was: seeds are preset at mission start. if you got a bad roll for a particular action, reloading doesn't change that, only performing a different action of the same type with a different actor (so they get that roll instead of you) does. so, for example, if your sniper is missing a 95% shot, reloading will NEVER have your sniper making that shot. if, otoh, you reload and have someone ELSE take that shot, no matter what the roll percentage is, then going back to your sniper after that gives them a different roll. if all your guys get miss rolls, you can reload, set them all to overwatch or hunker or whatever, and give those miss shot rolls to the aliens on their turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpernickels Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 I read a thread about loading saves on a game with random parameters like this a while ago, and that if you do load right before a shot you will almost always get the same outcome because the parameters are exactly the same. So it's not "truly" random in that regard. You're chance of hitting the target is decided before you actually take the shot, but it is based on the number shown. Or at least it WAS based on that number, but the number becomes arbitrary since your fate was already decided by the evil algorithm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpernickels Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) ^^and what HE meant was: seeds are preset at mission start. if you got a bad roll for a particular action, reloading doesn't change that, only performing a different action of the same type with a different actor (so they get that roll instead of you) does. so, for example, if your sniper is missing a 95% shot, reloading will NEVER have your sniper making that shot. if, otoh, you reload and have someone ELSE take that shot, no matter what the roll percentage is, then going back to your sniper after that gives them a different roll. if all your guys get miss rolls, you can reload, set them all to overwatch or hunker or whatever, and give those miss shot rolls to the aliens on their turn. You sure about that? I'm not sure where you guys are pulling this information from. I'm taking this as a sort of conjecture as I know of no way to verify these hypotheses. Edit: Unless you actually spoke to the programmers. Let's get the boys from Firaxis on the phone! Edited October 22, 2012 by Pumpernickels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichthyic Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 pulling from the algorithms others pulled from the UPK files. using random seeds is common in turn based games. but you can easily test it yourself by doing exactly what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perraine Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 It's also pretty easy to tell that the "roll" has already been done, particularly with sniper, as it plays a different cinematic for a "hit" than a miss most of the time, so that means it HAS to have already calculated whether you've hit or not beforehand (when this calculation takes place, I don't know) but after that point it's written in stone, so no amount of reloads will turn it into a hit ... But changing the action at that point (overwatch instead of shoot, or move then shoot with the pistol from a different location etc.) WILL re-roll the hit chance ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo111 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I read a thread about loading saves on a game with random parameters like this a while ago, and that if you do load right before a shot you will almost always get the same outcome because the parameters are exactly the same. So it's not "truly" random in that regard. You're chance of hitting the target is decided before you actually take the shot, but it is based on the number shown. Or at least it WAS based on that number, but the number becomes arbitrary since your fate was already decided by the evil algorithm. Whilst this is entering the realm of philosophy, It's still "truly" random. Shuffle a deck of 52 cards, leave it on the table for an hour, then take the top card.vsShuffle a deck of 52 cards and immediately take the top card. Reloading simply lets you put the card back on the top of the deck. In terms of 'dubious tactics' - (AFAIK) there's only 1 seed. Hunker down all your troops on this turn, and let the AI get the rolls you didn't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaerar Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If you reload and try the same action again you'll get exactly the same result... So in that case it's not a 95% CTH, if you missed and reloaded then it's 100% to MISS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemonjax Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) Isn't that what I said? :D I thought everyone knew at this point that there's an anti-savescumming feature built into the game. You can't reload and get different results for the same action. It's common knowledge at this point, especially in the mod talk forum. This isn't 2k's general discussion. Edited October 22, 2012 by Daemonjax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbar Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If you reload and try the same action again you'll get exactly the same result... So in that case it's not a 95% CTH, if you missed and reloaded then it's 100% to MISS. not rally.. but, seriously, dont waste too much time pondering it... its just a system many games use and its "good enough" in so far as it works fine. it just pisses-off save-scummers.... which depending on your philosophy could be good or bad. I like Dumbo's analogy myself :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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