Megaton and Mr Burke's Request

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I find it weird that if radiation decays "very slowly" and a place like Hiroshima is perfectly safe to live in again, yet places like Chernobyl (sp?) are not.

 

Different isotopes have different half-lives. The Hiroshima bomb was a Uranium weapon (the only one of its kind ever detonated, in fact), and really produced very little in the way of radioactive fallout after the initial gamma burst. The Nagasaki weapon, being a Plutonium-fueled weapon, was actually somewhat dirtier despite being a more technically advanced design. Neither bomb used more than 2% of its fissionable material (now there's a factoid to put things in perspective; imagine the yield if the chain reaction had been 100% efficient!)

 

Both bombs, however, had an incredibly small amount of fissionable material to begin with- despite the intimidating size of the weapons themselves, their cores would've fit in your hand. Compare this to Chernobyl; a typical fuel rod for a nuclear reactor is bigger than your arm and every reactor may contain dozens. Nuclear fuel for reactors need not be as pure as fuel for nuclear weapons, but you're still talking about a significant amount of fissionable material- and everything around it becomes irradiated. At Chernobyl, the already-radioactive coolant was released into the environment by the explosion (caused by a buildup of pressure) of the reactor containment vessel. The problem was further compounded by the actual meltdown of the reactor components (including the fuel rods), which burned their way deep enough to contaminate the ground water. As a result, the event at Chernobyl- despite being less physically destructive- made both the Little Boy and the Fat Man blasts look downright sterile by comparison. Radioactive material was spread all over the place at Chernobyl; at Hiroshima and Nagasaki there was only a very small amount of radioactive material which was spread to Hell and gone by the blasts. Chernobyl, however, did not produce the initial gamma ray burst associated with a nuclear explosion, and so did not produce radiation sickness in so many people quite so quickly as a nuclear weapon could have.

 

^ All that is layman's stuff, however; I'm no nuclear physicist, I just have a bit of an interest in things that go boom.

 

Remember that, as a game, the environment is very scaled down. If Fallout 3's game world were to be expanded to fit over corresponding real-world locations, Tenpenny would likely be a good half hour's drive from Megaton, putting it comfortably outside the effective radius of a tactical-range blast. Also, the initial radiation burst (which is the only time ionizing rays are released; alpha and beta particles wouldn't be of much concern unless the wind blew the fallout in an unfortunate direction) would not reach Tenpenny as the point of detonation is below ground level. For the same reason, EMP would be a non-issue; EMP is only a major concern with an airburst (the higher the altitude at detonation, the greater the effective radius of EMP). The only things which would be affected by EMP from the Megaton blast would have their worries removed a few fractions of a second later by the expanding nuclear fireball.

 

The only significant thing the fireball gives off is heat; by the time the fireball finishes forming, the nuclear chain reaction is over and done (we're talking fractions of a second here). It gives off quite a lot of heat, but only trace amounts of ionizing radiation. The sudden, extreme release of heat from the fireball creates the pressure which results in the blast wave, and the vacuum formed as the fireball rises and dissipates is what creates the mushroom cloud (as all manner of debris is sucked skyward).

 

The short version- given that the world is scaled down for ease of travel and likely represents a far greater expanse of terrain, I believe that Tenpenny Tower would be quite safe from the direct effects of the Megaton bomb. Fallout is another story; if the tower were downwind all those stuck-up pricks would still get a good eyeful of the nasty stuff. Otherwise it'd be safe.

[mod1fied]

And what about Moira ? She would not be ghoulified but more likely incinerated in the blast even if it was on the ground and not an air burst.

[Phoynix]

Armadous sorry to dispel your myth, but the majority of nuclear weapons are currently low kiloton percision weapons and would not cause a nuclear winter, that requires BIG bombs.

Small bombs actually cause more radioactive material to land on the ground, while big bombs actually expel most of there harmful isotopes into the upper strotasphere where they should remain for thousands of years.

 

Since Fallout world isnt in a Nuclear winter we can assume on a very good educationed basis that the bombs used were small yield percision warheads, which would mean the bomb found in Megaton would be small.

 

Secondly the nuclear explosion isnt directly dependent on the ammount of material used, but the way in which its detonated, if we assume the primary explovies had decayed they wouldnt cause a proper critical reaction, it could be what is known as a fizzle out, the material starts to heat up, and blows itself apart before it can properly detonate.

 

 

Besides all this.. its a bloody game, standing as close to a "fatboy" would flashblind you, kill you instantly and walking through extremly radioactive areas would cause most of the clothing your wearing to become radioactive aswell not to mention the fact that its impossible to remove radation from the body like Rad-Away implies.

 

ITS A GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

 

 

Just for an afterthought.

 

To get the most out of a nuclear weapon, your actually better off detonating it at sea.

 

when a 20kiloton nuke is detonated at sea billions of gallons of water turn into steam, they can if used properly create a nice little 6km high titalwave traving up to 12 times the speed of sound.

 

Makes you wonder JUST what Al-quida could do with the 27 known 20kiloton ex-soviet nukes they are KNOWN to have....

Which is why a little off topic I feel the war agasint "TERROR" will never be won and at best will be a statemate and massive loss of life on both sides.

 

Which is why as an Australain I wish our leaders would distance themselves from the USA as quickly and as FAR as possible.

 

back into game...

Since so much water is radioactive over anything else including metals(something which easily becomes radioactive), we could assume that water detonated nukes made the capital wasteland, considering it has ALOT of wear which is incosistant with a direct nuke attack but consistant with flood damage, and the fact somehow an aircraft carrer got beached.. it could be true.

[Cyvanhoe]

Question...

 

I might be mistaken here, but...

 

Who said that the Megaton Bomb is actually a Nuke ? Sure, they all believe it is a Nuke... the Sheriff, the Children of the Atom, Mr. Burke. But no one actually SAYS it, they all refer to it simply as 'The Bomb'.

 

For all we know it could very well be a simple TNT bomb, lots of TNT would look similar to the big Bang we can see in the game I guess.

 

This would also explain why you only need 25 Explosives Skill to disarm the slumbering baby. :thumbsup:

[Phoynix]

the water around the bomb is more radioactive then normal water found anywhere else...

hence something inside the bomb is radioactive.

[Armadous]

Armadous sorry to dispel your myth, but the majority of nuclear weapons are currently low kiloton percision weapons

not to mention the fact that its impossible to remove radation from the body like Rad-Away implies.

 

No argument from me there, tactical nukes are the modern choice, especially since the payload deliverable by a ICBM is very limited. Based on its perceivable volume the mass would have required a massive rocket which makes me suspect the bomb was dropped. What you you did that you cannot do for the sake of this discussion however is disregard game lore. We are talking about the supposed possibility of this event occurring in our little fictional world. You cannot dispute the effectiveness of radiation medication in this context either. The game has established its existence and effectiveness.

 

Since Fallout world isnt in a Nuclear winter we can assume on a very good educationed basis that the bombs used were small yield percision warheads

 

You cannot, 200 years would be more than enough time for a nuclear winter to run its course. The bomb model is very much based off fat man, the stabilizing fins suggest it was deployed as gravity bomb. Which also leads me to believe it was an implosion bomb which could well have degraded significantly and fizzled but I think the point of the discussion is to determine the maximum detonation at which Tenpenny Tower would still survive.

 

As I have pointed out before, the bomb may have looked like Fat Man but by the game lore it was deployed by a civilization 68 years more advanced than we are currently. You have to assume the bomb was of greater yield than its real world base. We could say the bomb in Megaton was exactly like Fat Man but Tenpenny Tower would easily survive a 21 KT blast from the distance at which it sits but that doesn't make for a very interesting discussion.

[Alanor]

walking through extremly radioactive areas would cause most of the clothing your wearing to become radioactive aswell

Er, just to clarify I assume you mean that the clothes would be contaminated with radioactive material in the form of airborne dust.

[Cyvanhoe]

the water around the bomb is more radioactive then normal water found anywhere else...

hence something inside the bomb is radioactive.

 

Normally I'd let that one count... been thinking in the same direction myself. But then again...

 

You blow up a car with your rifle... and your PipBoy goes Tick Tick Tick. Are the cars fueled with radioactive Material ? I doubt it.

 

Therefore... The PipBoy 3000 in this game obviously not only measures radiation but all other sorts of contamination as well.

 

So the water being more contaminated isn't a definite proof that the bomb is a nuke. It could be, like I said before, just the TNT in the bomb (or whatever else it is loaded with) that has gotten into the water. After all that bomb has been resting there for other 150 years now.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Two things:

 

No argument from me there, tactical nukes are the modern choice, especially since the payload deliverable by a ICBM is very limited.

 

ICBMs have been capable of delivering warheads in the megaton range as long as they've existed, and modern ICBMs are capable of delivering up to several dozen at once. SLBMs (the weapons carried on ballistic missile submarines) carry fewer warheads, but still up to a dozen. Most nuclear weapons these days are also dial-a-yield weapons- they can be reconfigured with minimal effort to deliver a tactical kiloton range blast or a city-shattering megaton range blast.

 

You blow up a car with your rifle... and your PipBoy goes Tick Tick Tick. Are the cars fueled with radioactive Material ? I doubt it.

 

Actually, all vehicles in Fallout are nuclear powered. In the Fallout universe, miniaturized nuclear reactors were perfected by the time the Great War occurred. Portable nuclear generators are the reason anybody still has electricity; you'll see them lying around next time you go exploring. Cars used a variant on that same technology, which is why your Geiger counter has a hissy fit every time one blows up nearby. Nuclear technology progressed far enough that even some of the game's energy weapons (specifically the plasma and laser rifles) are powered by micro[i[fusion[/i] cells. It makes sense; we've known since Fallout 2 that the world ran out of exploitable oil reserves some decades before the Great War happened (indeed, conflict over resources was one of the major causes behind the War).

[Alanor]

Normally I'd let that one count... been thinking in the same direction myself. But then again...

Tenpenny refers to it as a "Nuke" when it's set off at Tenpenny Tower. He says something like that he wishes they had another nuke to set off.

 

Therefore... The PipBoy 3000 in this game obviously not only measures radiation but all other sorts of contamination as well.

Wrong, the pip boy carries a geiger counter and displays the dose of radiation in the (obsolete IRL) Rad unit (replaced by the Gray unit IRL). This is a measure of absorbed radiation, nothing else.

 

After all that bomb has been resting there for other 150 years now.

200 acctualy :smile: