XCOM EU More Civilians

[FMod]

My point is: So did Epic with UE. There's less than Source, but considerably more than Bethesda's titles. I'd say they tend to compete with Cryengine in so far as level of custom content per mod versus number of mods available for each.

UE3 SDK that Epic offers and UE3 in a finished game are two completely different beasts. Yes, they use the same underlying technology... Like how a family hatchback shares some of Toyota's Formula 1 DNA.

 

UE3 offers you tools for creating a game from scratch - creating a virtually unmoddable game. Engine SDK and end game modding aren't even in the same library, much less on the same page.

Think of it this way: engine SDK is a CNC milling machine. A game is an end product produced using that machine.

 

That end product can be a deeply moddable device, consisting of several functional blocks, built with 100 identical Philips head screws connecting 25 interchangeable parts with ISO spacing and ISO electrical interfaces. Or it can be a set of proprietary parts glued together such that they can't be separated without destroying them, making it impossible to repair, much less mod.

 

This is what defines moddability. Not the convenience of using the CNC machine. Moddability is a property of the end product, or, when comparing engines, of the end products that a certain construction method tends to produce.

 

 

When it comes to XCom, I'm more inclined to think of texture/sound/model replacements as mods as they require more work than just dragging and dropping new content into a folder, unlike Source games.

The ease of modding doesn't make these things any less of a mod. It just makes mods easier to create.

 

Not because of the engine, but because studios aside from Epic, themselves, don't tend to support modding to its fullest when they use UE. It's definitely a conscious choice on the devs' behalf.

In part because of the engine.

For instance, some engines store scripts as plaintext to be compiled; UE3 stores bytecode. The former is easily modded, the latter is not.

Some engines use open folder structure for files, others require strictly controlled packs. UE3 is the latter.

I could go on, but, really, it's hard to see a front on which UE3 is mod-friendly. And it's like that in every UE3 game I know.

 

As for XCOM, I doubt Firaxis made a lot of conscious choices. It's just slapped together without caring either way, they didn't bother to think about modding and whether to help or discourage it.

[Jeffman12]

UE3 SDK that Epic offers and UE3 in a finished game are two completely different beasts. Yes, they use the same underlying technology... Like how a family hatchback shares some of Toyota's Formula 1 DNA.

 

UE3 offers you tools for creating a game from scratch - creating a virtually unmoddable game. Engine SDK and end game modding aren't even in the same library, much less on the same page.

Think of it this way: engine SDK is a CNC milling machine. A game is an end product produced using that machine.

 

That end product can be a deeply moddable device, consisting of several functional blocks, built with 100 identical Philips head screws connecting 25 interchangeable parts with ISO spacing and ISO electrical interfaces. Or it can be a set of proprietary parts glued together such that they can't be separated without destroying them, making it impossible to repair, much less mod.

 

This is what defines moddability. Not the convenience of using the CNC machine. Moddability is a property of the end product, or, when comparing engines, of the end products that a certain construction method tends to produce.

I'm talking about how they released their engine free for indie devs with the stipulation that they need to buy a license if the devs make bank on it. Of course the contract is a little more complex than that, but anyone can obtain a copy of the UDK and use it free of charge. ModDB is still getting new games from it and mods from the older UT games converted to the UDK. It's not quite what id's done in the past, but that's pretty close to open source.

The ease of modding doesn't make these things any less of a mod. It just makes mods easier to create.

Well, okay, but I still don't consider my retex of the arctic avenger from CSS a "mod" so to speak.

In part because of the engine.

For instance, some engines store scripts as plaintext to be compiled; UE3 stores bytecode. The former is easily modded, the latter is not.

Some engines use open folder structure for files, others require strictly controlled packs. UE3 is the latter.

I could go on, but, really, it's hard to see a front on which UE3 is mod-friendly. And it's like that in every UE3 game I know.

What I intended to say is there really are less friendly games and engines out there, by comparison. Besides, I'm almost certain UE doesn't have any built in checks for edits by date or variance in file size. If anything, custom file packs, I think better incentivize total conversions when you figure out the compression method and the file structure. Westwood's games saw that happen. Maybe it could be attributed to less file security, but I suppose the reverse is just as possible if not more likely. Not to imply the current level of understanding here is adequate to begin without, say, assistance from the studio of some form in learning how to edit the game better.

As for XCOM, I doubt Firaxis made a lot of conscious choices. It's just slapped together without caring either way, they didn't bother to think about modding and whether to help or discourage it.

That stands to reason, I just read an article in GI that, in a way, reveals that they 'just kinda wanted to make a new xcom game bad enough to do so' if I may paraphrase. But I do hope they decide to come on in favor of modding, everyone wins then.

[FMod]

I'm talking about how they released their engine free for indie devs with the stipulation that they need to buy a license if the devs make bank on it. Of course the contract is a little more complex than that, but anyone can obtain a copy of the UDK and use it free of charge.

Like said before, that isn't moddability.

You can get a C++ IDE and an OpenGL SDK free of charge, which you can then use to write your own game. And you won't even have to buy a license or share 25% of your profits. So does it make anything written in C++ with OpenGL any more moddable?

 

Moddability is being able to take a finished product and with implement changes to it, with effort proportionate to the extent of these changes.

Being able or unable to take the same engine, SDK, IDE or whatever and make a separate unrelated game has no effect on it.

 

 

What I intended to say is there really are less friendly games and engines out there, by comparison.

A few. But nothing major, just crude in-house engines. Among major middleware type ones, if UE3 doesn't take the cake, it's certainly a contender.

 

That stands to reason, I just read an article in GI that, in a way, reveals that they 'just kinda wanted to make a new xcom game bad enough to do so' if I may paraphrase. But I do hope they decide to come on in favor of modding, everyone wins then.

Maybe. But I'm not holding my breath. It would cost dev time, and time is money...