What Did Skyrim Do Right?

[Enatiomorph]

I did this thing called role playing, where I stuck to my build. I didnt give two @#$$ about efficient leveling or even trying to overcome the silliness that was level scaling. I RPed and never maxed out all my skills. 300 something builds over Ob and Morrowind alone, not one with maxed attributes.

 

Also, people seem to be fixated on how they worked (especially with Ob level scaling), and not with fixing them. Nobody wants attributes 1:1 how they worked in either Morrowind or Oblivion. We want a better attribute system. even something more static. But that requires sticking with your choice (you know, choices that matter, like character creation), and it's obvious Beth isn't interested in that anymore.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Enatiomorph

[sajuukkhar9000]

Also, people seem to be fixated on how they worked (especially with Ob level scaling), and not with fixing them. Nobody wants attributes 1:1 how they worked in either Morrowind or Oblivion. We want a better attribute system. even something more static. But that requires sticking with your choice (you know, choices that matter, like character creation), and it's obvious Beth isn't interested in that anymore.

A static attribute system is even WORSE then Oblivion/Morrowind's dynamic attribute system.

Edited November 1, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[formalrevya]

I did this thing called role playing, where I stuck to my build. I didnt give two @#$$ about efficient leveling or even trying to overcome the silliness that was level scaling. I RPed and never maxed out all my skills. 300 something builds over Ob and Morrowind alone, not one with maxed attributes.

 

Also, people seem to be fixated on how they worked (especially with Ob level scaling), and not with fixing them. Nobody wants attributes 1:1 how they worked in either Morrowind or Oblivion. We want a better attribute system. even something more static. But that requires sticking with your choice (you know, choices that matter, like character creation), and it's obvious Beth isn't interested in that anymore.

 

I was role playing back in the days when pen and paper reigned supreme, that argument holds no weight with me what so ever.

 

The fact of the matter is, the system in oblivion made it impossible not to increase your stats in other areas not related to your build.

 

Unless you RP'd a perpetual insomniac who was so high on skooma all the time he never once slept past hitting where you wanted to be in terms of level.

[Enatiomorph]

If you cant back it up with math and show how you stuck to your build yet still maxed all attributes, then there is nothing more to say. Prove it. You cant, because you cant max all attributes while sticking to your build. And there's mods for being able to sleep without leveling in Ob.

 

sorry, but nothing you guys come up with will ever change the fact that 3 sets of variables offers more diversity than 2.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Enatiomorph

[sajuukkhar9000]

No. That insures diversity and limitations, unless you perk or implanted higher attributes.

No. The perk system in Skyrim ensures diversity and limitations.

 

There are 250 perks in Skyrim, and the average player will max out their character''s chosen skills at around level 50. That means the average person will only ever get 1/5 of the total number of perks, thus you can never be great at everything, thus the limitations.

 

However, the perk system of Skyrim has the added bonus of not forcing a choice on the player at the very beginning of the game that could possibly make the game nearly impossible to beat without having the physic foresight necessary to know what attributes the game designers chose to be retired were. In short static attribute systems turn the game its an idiotic and unnecessary trial and error, instead of something that you can just play.

 

On top of that static attribute systems still suffer from the same "raising your attributes by like 10 points doesn't actually change anything" problem dynamic attribute systems have, but now your just stuck with it instead of being able to change it.

Edited November 1, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Enatiomorph]

No. That insures diversity and limitations, unless you perk or implanted higher attributes.

No. The perk system in Skyrim ensures diversity and limitations.

 

There are 250 perks in Skyrim, and the average player will max out their character''s chosen skills at around 50. That means you can only ever get 1/5 of the total number of perks, thus you can never be great at everything, thus the limitations.

 

However, the perk system of skyrim has the added bonus of not forcing a choice on the player at the very beginning of the game that could possibly make the game nearly impossible to beat without having the physic foresight necessary to know what attributes the game designers chose to be retired were.

 

Static attribute systems turn the game its an idiotic and unnecessary trial and error, instead of something that you can just play.

Attributes, skills and perks>skills and perks. Seriously, keep up with the conversation. Game wasn't really impossible with level scaling fault anyway in Oblivion (since that is what you are talking about and not attributes). Guess you just weren't very good at the game, I dont know? And if you are sticking with your build, then no perks dont offer that much diversity, since you'll be maxing out the skill anyway with overlapping skilled characters, and any omittance of perks is by your own self limitation, not the games.

 

If you just go willy nilly and start JOATING or just playing and not caring about a build, then yes one players hodgepodge will be different from the next, But the same can be said in all the previous ES games.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Enatiomorph

[formalrevya]

If you cant back it up with math and show how you stuck to your build yet still maxed all attributes, then there is nothing more to say. Prove it.

 

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races here's the official list of stats for the races.

 

now if I take the starting bonus that a specific race gets to certain skills and attributes, and combine it with the bonus from the birthsign and the bonus from picking certain skills as major

 

I get their starting stats, and their starting levels in major skills.

 

Now If I pick a class that relies heavily on skills that have the same governing attribute, I'm looking at at least 3 to 4 attribute points for those each time I level up.

 

All I have to do is add together all of their starting skills once I get out of the starting sewer, subtract that number from 700, and then divide the number I get by 7 to determine how many times I can level up. then applying my average attribute gain per level, I can easily determine what a class's finished stats are going to look like. So, there's your math.

Edited November 1, 2012 by formalrevya

[Enatiomorph]

If you cant back it up with math and show how you stuck to your build yet still maxed all attributes, then there is nothing more to say. Prove it.

 

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races here's the official list of stats for the races.

 

now if I take the starting bonus that a specific race gets to certain skills and attributes, and combine it with the bonus from the birthsign and the bonus from picking certain skills as major

 

I get their starting stats, and their starting levels in major attributes.

 

Now If I pick a class that relies heavily on skills that have the same governing attribute, I'm looking at at least 3 to 4 attribute points for those each time I level up.

 

All I have to do is add together all of their starting skills once I get out of the starting sewer, subtract that number from 700, and then divide the number I get by 7 to determine how many times I can level up. then applying my average attribute gain per level, I can easily determine what a class's finished stats are going to look like. So, there's your math.

For the pre made classes, and if you leveled each one the exact same way, hit for hit, skill gain by skill gain. You just proved my point. Thanks. A build that sticks with his skill set will not max all attributes, fact.

 

But I see people are still hung up on how it worked, and not how it would work now.

 

The point has already been made by a modder:

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/13968

 

That is more diversity than vanilla. Simple math. Attributes coupled with skills, coupled with perks is more diversity than just skills and perks.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Enatiomorph

[sajuukkhar9000]

Attributes, skills and perks>skills and perks. Seriously, keep up with the conversation. Game wasn't really impossible with level scaling fault anyway in Oblivion (since that is what you are talking about and not attributes). Guess you just weren't very good at the game, I dont know? And if you are sticking with your build, then no perks dont offer that much diversity, since you'll be maxing out the skill anyway with overlapping skilled characters, and any omittance of perks is by your own self limitation, not the games.

 

If you just go willy nilly and start JOATING or just playing and not caring about a build, then yes one players hodgepodge will be different from the next, But the same can be said in all the previous ES games.

I never said anything ever about Oblivion being impossible, or even hard, or even anything about its difficulty period. Now your just making stuff up entirely.

 

 

A warrior with 100 in one handed skill, and all perks

-does twice as much damage

-has 20% less cost in power attack

-has three more powers attacks

Then a mage or a thief with 100 in one handed skills, and no perks.

 

Raising the skill itself does little to increase your damage, and having a 100 in your skill means nothing. All the strength of skills in skyrim comes from the perks, amd without perks, you might as well not have the skill at all in most cases.

Edited November 1, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Enatiomorph]

Attributes, skills and perks>skills and perks. Seriously, keep up with the conversation. Game wasn't really impossible with level scaling fault anyway in Oblivion (since that is what you are talking about and not attributes). Guess you just weren't very good at the game, I dont know? And if you are sticking with your build, then no perks dont offer that much diversity, since you'll be maxing out the skill anyway with overlapping skilled characters, and any omittance of perks is by your own self limitation, not the games.

 

If you just go willy nilly and start JOATING or just playing and not caring about a build, then yes one players hodgepodge will be different from the next, But the same can be said in all the previous ES games.

I never said anything ever about Oblivion being impossible, or ever hard. Now your just making stuff up entirely.

 

 

A warrior with 100 in one handed skill, and all perks

-does twice as much damage

-has 20% less cost in power attack

-has three more powers attacks

Then a mage or a thief with 100 in one handed skills, and no perks.

 

Raising the skill itself does little to increase your damage, and having a 100 in your skill means nothing.

 

All the strength of skills in skyrim comes from the perks.

However, the perk system of skyrim has the added bonus of not forcing a choice on the player at the very beginning of the game that could possibly make the game nearly impossible to beat without having the physic foresight necessary to know what attributes the game designers chose to be retired were.

 

You're obviously referring to Oblivion (especially level scaling, since that was never a problem in any other ES). Sorry but if you thought the game got nearly impossible, then you must not be very good. Do you have a hard time remembering what you write?

 

At what point where you gong to get on the same page as me, and understand we are talking about their implementation in Skyrim? How long before you get it?

Edited November 1, 2012 by Enatiomorph