A Question of Pirate-Hate

[mikedeeznuts]

I noticed the site has a zero tolerance people who pirated the game. (I only own Fallout: New Vegas on steam, only PC Game I have)

 

Why? I saw the comment "We don't support users who don't support the game makers"

If I had admitted to something (Hypothetical) like borrowing the disks off a friend, and managing to make the game work, or if I only played off of a friends PC, would I still be banned? Because that would (Hypothetically) mean I didn't support anything.

So why should it matter if the game was pirated or not? Its not that you don't show support, those companies churn the money to pay for the game creation by the time the game is a week old. So why should it be so hefty for a ban if people might not be able to afford it, or not be convinced enough that its going to be a good enough game to spend the ridiculous amount of money games are now adays?

 

First time poster, thought I'd ask something on my mind.

[AnotherAverageName]

Short answer: Its illegal. You would be breaking the law...it's basically stealing. Besides, its not like your getting arrested, you just get banned. So it really isn't "hefty" at all.

 

I'm sure one of the admin/moderators will explain it to you in more detail...

 

But uh......Welcome!!!! :D

Edited November 26, 2012 by AnotherAverageName

[bben46]

Moderator & former professional programmer here

\begin rant

 

Piracy is illegal - it is a form of theft of services. How would you like it if you spent 5 years of 10 hour days creating a game, then was laid off from your job because sales were so far below projections that the company could no longer afford a full staff, then find that there were more pirated copies than paid for copies floating around?

 

I have seen so many lame excuses for piracy, and very few of any other kind - here are a few.

 

I couldn't afford it - you could afford a $3000 computer? Then you can afford a $60 game. I can't afford a lot of things - I do without instead of stealing.

 

It's not worth the price - if its worth stealing then it's worth the price. You are just making another lame excuse.

 

The game makers make enough money, they don't need mine - They use that extra money to add features to the next game they make - remind your pirate friends the next time they whine about the quality of a game they stole. And tell it to the developer that got laid off and is having problems making his house payment and feeding his family.

 

The developers get paid up front, stealing the game just affects the fat cat executives. Wow what economics courses have you not taken? If those fat cats don't make as much as they think they should, do you really think they are going to cut their own salary? Or, do you think they will lay off underpaid paid developers and cut back on features for the next game to make up the difference? They make their money, you suffer the consequences in poor quality.

 

Everybody does it. - No, everybody doesn't do it if everybody did it there would not be any new games to steal because all of the game companies would already be out of business.

 

To make an A game, the company needs up front cash - either from a previous game or from investors - typically around 5 to 10 million US dollars. They don't see any return for around 5 years. If the investors don't make a reasonable profit, they will not invest again - then there is no next game. If they do make a more than reasonable profit then they will not only make a next game, but will add features. That's what you are paying for.

 

The data needs to be free!!! yeah, and the grocery stores need to give away food so the developers can feed their family. The university needs to quit charging for an education so the programmers don't have to make so much to pay back those insane student loans they took out to learn how to make games. The auto companies need to donate cars to all of those programmers so they don't have to pay for them. :rolleyes: Get a job as a developer - then tell me just how free that data is. It cost the developers a lot already - and you think you should get it free?

 

\end rant

 

The new funding model for games is services like kickstarter - you donate directly to the developers - bypassing the big companies - they make a game - when it is finished, you get a copy of the game, plus more goodies if you donate more - the key here is they get the money up front and are not hurt so bad by piracy. The advantage is there are no investors to demand that features be cut to make a release date (remember 11-11-11?) and to take most of the profit. The money goes directly to the developers, less overhead. No need for huge marketing budgets to be sure they sell enough to make their minimum. All of the marketing is on the front end to generate the cash to make the game. Then, anything the developers make over the cost is theirs (it's called profit) to use to start another game - so please find an indie game and donate if you want a good game. :thumbsup:

[JanusForbeare]

As Dark0ne (site owner) said:

 

We support the people and companies who give us the games, tools and other entertainment mediums we all take for granted and believe that all of you should too. Why should we, the people who legally purchased our games, support those members of the community who haven't?

 

We do not care for the politics of software piracy or why you may or may not believe that piracy is or is not acceptable. For us, and on these sites, it is unacceptable.

 

If you can't afford the games you want to play, that's unfortunate. But if you (hypothetically, of course) pirate the games, that's the same as walking into EB Games and stealing a hardcopy. If you were caught doing that, would you really offer up the excuse, "Well, I can't afford to pay for it, and since the developers have lots of money, I figured it was okay"? That doesn't even fly in court for starving people stealing loaves of bread, it certainly wouldn't fly for someone stealing what is (let's face it) a luxury product.

 

Since time immemorial, when honest people wanted something they couldn't afford, they did one of two things:

 

1) Saved up for it, or

 

2) Went without.

 

I don't see why it should be any different today.

 

There's also the issue of the site owners being liable for the activities of their users. This pertains more to people who upload mods that are in violation of copyright, but it's a slippery slope that can easily begin with turning a blind eye to software pirates. No one wants the Nexus to go the way of Megaupload, and so the site owners continue to enforce their zero-tolerance policy towards pirates. I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

EDIT:

 

remember 11-11-11

 

Oh god, don't get me started. Someday, that's going to be my battle-cry as I charge into Beth's offices at the front of a horde of angry geeks.

Edited November 26, 2012 by JanusForbeare

[brokenergy]

Imagine you spend two-three years working on an existing IP or four-five years working on a new IP. You finish it your work, and sell your product. Imagine then that people steal your product because they don't like the publisher or the price is too high or it is banned. How you you feel then? Hmm? You feel angry, you worked your heart out for this product and people steal it. You wouldn't steal a TV or a car, why would you steal a game?

[mikedeeznuts]

Imagine you spend two-three years working on an existing IP or four-five years working on a new IP. You finish it your work, and sell your product. Imagine then that people steal your product because they don't like the publisher or the price is too high or it is banned. How you you feel then? Hmm? You feel angry, you worked your heart out for this product and people steal it. You wouldn't steal a TV or a car, why would you steal a game?

 

I understand the economic consequence, but its far harder to pirate console versions, which are the more popular source of income for the gaming industry, so if you want to make a successful game, put it on console.

"You wouldn't steal a TV or a car, why would you steal a game" No offence, but Call of Battlefield: Modern Black Ops isn't going to cost 14,000 dollars. Thats like saying "Why would you pick up that 10 dollars you found on the ground? Would you just go and walk into someones house and claim it was YOURS because YOU found it?" Or saying "You robbed a Penny Candy, would you rob a bank?" To compare robbing a game, and robbing a car is ridiculous. Thievery isn't all measured on the same accord, theres a difference.

I don't pirate games purely because its a total hassle in my opinion. But I like two rappers, Immortal Technique and Chino XL, they openly allow and cherish those who illegally download their music, why? because they make enough off it anyways.

I think personally, the war on piracy is nothing more than greed, people are pissed because they can't buy that 150 ft yatch any more, gotta settle with that 100 ft one instead. Or can't upgrade their TV From 36 inches, to 62 inches.

And can a site really get done by the law for a user admitting they pirate? I mean you're stopping people from having fun, purely because they downloaded a game? really banning people for such a small crime? When the companies make far more than needed? Piracy has been around since films been around, and its not particularly getting any more out of hand. The rich are still rich, the poor are still poor. Actors are still getting paid 2 million a film, and people on minimum wage are still pirating entertainment.

[AnotherAverageName]

*sigh* do you see how the pirate stands out in this happy environment-

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :pirate: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

Its called a "good community" Thats why nobody wants pirates on their site (well, this site)....If I had a site I know I wouldn't want a bunch of lawbreakers on it.

 

"I don't pirate games purely because its a total hassle in my opinion. But I like two rappers, Immortal Technique and Chino XL, they openly allow and cherish those who illegally download their music " I do hope that was hypothetical...

Edited November 28, 2012 by AnotherAverageName

[bben46]

And can a site really get done by the law for a user admitting they pirate?

 

Why don't you ask that of Peter Sunde? the founder of TPB - currently serving time in a Swedish jail and facing a multi million dollar fine. Or Kim Dotcom (AKA Kim Schmitz) Founder of Megaupload - Currently fighting extradition to the US on charges of enabling piracy. For them the answer is YES, they can 'get done' by the law.

[mikedeeznuts]

And can a site really get done by the law for a user admitting they pirate?

 

Why don't you ask that of Peter Sunde? the founder of TPB - currently serving time in a Swedish jail and facing a multi million dollar fine. Or Kim Dotcom (AKA Kim Schmitz) Founder of Megaupload - Currently fighting extradition to the US on charges of enabling piracy. For them the answer is YES, they can 'get done' by the law.

 

Thats different, they were holding sites that you could pirate from. What I'm saying is, can you get prosecuted for people admitting they pirate on your site? I assume not, because that would mean sites like facebook can be destroyed due to users admitting they pirate.

[JimboUK]

And can a site really get done by the law for a user admitting they pirate?

 

Why don't you ask that of Peter Sunde? the founder of TPB - currently serving time in a Swedish jail and facing a multi million dollar fine. Or Kim Dotcom (AKA Kim Schmitz) Founder of Megaupload - Currently fighting extradition to the US on charges of enabling piracy. For them the answer is YES, they can 'get done' by the law.

 

Thats different, they were holding sites that you could pirate from. What I'm saying is, can you get prosecuted for people admitting they pirate on your site? I assume not, because that would mean sites like facebook can be destroyed due to users admitting they pirate.

 

This site has an interest in staying on the good side of both publishers and developers, modding has a bad enough name among the ignorant as it is, no one wants to add "aiding thieves" to the list. There is also a more practical reason, a lot of mods don't play nicely with bent games and it's a pain in the arse when you spend time trying to help someone only to find out later they were using a pirate copy. There is no excuse for stealing games, it's not like a starving person stealing food, games are a luxury, not a necessity