cumbrianlad Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 Ah. I see. If that rock was a vanilla rock, then yes, the esp that modifies it and loads last will win. If it is a new rock added in the 1st esp, then your 2nd esp adds a new rock of the same type, then both will show up in-game. Believe me, Maxarturo, I was stunned when I discovered this. That is all down to one single conversation with another modder which made me try more specific tests. The only influence terrain alterations make is that one esp may load an object higher or lower than the other. Navmesh... that's another thing entirely! If another mod edited the navmesh for my cell and finalized it, I'm guessing that no NPCs (except followers) would use the doors. All NPCs may bang into the walls of my custom home... total NPC chaos would ensue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NexBeth Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 There really is nothing wrong with editing exterior cells. And two mods can co-exist in the same general space as long as they don't edit the same exact space. It is up to the person modding their game to look for potential conflicts in mods that obviously modify exterior space, or even interior vanilla cells. It would be nice if the mod author also takes a look and posts up any conflicting mod that they know of. I'm working on a mod now where I have edited Bleak Falls Burrow 01 cell. Now my edit adds to vanilla dungeon and does not edit much of the vanilla part of the cell. If someone else adds to this cell but it doesn't touch where I have edited, then there's no conflict. Also, the reason MAs make patches for other mods is to make their mods compatible with each other. Its not just a matter of load order. For instance, if I made a house with a stable outdoors and someone else made a mod that added a decorative ruin to the same spot. That person may want to create a patch to their mod that removes that ruin so that the two mods don't conflict. In a mod that I'm currently working on I have massively altered Anise's Cabin exterior cell, but have left her cabin area alone. There's no conflicts with my mod and Anise's Cabin. Imagine the fine tuning that mods that modify cities/villages exterior. And some will even be patched so that other mods that also modify the same place can be used together. The bigger problem with modifying exterior cells is the LOD which does not get modified with MA edits. There are LOD mods that can generate new LOD for your mod, I've yet to figure out how to extract the specific cells applicable to my mod. That's another story, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumbrianlad Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 Nexbeth, at long last I am beginning to understand all of this. At the moment, I'm happy with the understanding that I have. If it comes to people wanting patches, I see that I have a lot to learn. The mod I am about to release will be my first (though I've made dozens for personal use and entertainment value). Fingers crossed! I'm pleased about your comment "There really is nothing wrong with editing exterior cells." I believed that but read so many posts telling me it was wrong! If we couldn't do that then many great mods would not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NexBeth Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Take a look at all the very popular house, estate, palace and city mods that massively edit exterior cells. You have your answer. But, it does need to be done with care. You don't want to unintentionally disable an important quest by edits to a cell. This can be ameliorated by researching the cell(s) you wish to modify. And when editing exterior, you do not delete things you don't want. You disable them, then bury them below the terrain if needed. Basically don't delete navs and don't delete objects, activators, markers, etc., in exterior cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumbrianlad Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 Thanks Nexbeth. I'm very careful about not deleting anything in any vanilla cell. Iwork on the principle... If I can work around it, don't touch it at all.If I can't, but moving it a touch on the same triangle of navmesh will work, i do that.If I can't do either I disable it. Making quests helps with all of this, because seeing how vanilla quests run, you quickly see that a piece of furniture or an x-marker can be an NPC's target location in a quest. Even if no quest is involved any item can be used as a marker in a sandbox package or travel package. Thankfully, my house is in a cell that nobody cared about. Heck, it only had one wild animal marker anywhere near it and even that wasn't in my cell. Other than that it had a rock, a cliff, some shrubs three trees and a bird nest. I've kept the trees and bird nest and cliff and disabled the rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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