Computer compatibility questions

[anjenthedog]

Yeah, I do too. DigitalStorm, Cyberpower, Xotic, etc. Gets pricey quick though. I've had computers decked out to 10k before I said "Whoa, WTF are you doing?" Thanks for the advice on the processor and GPU. I was going with the triple fan water cooled sealed unit on the processor, just haven't had very good luck looking for a GPU liquid cooler I like yet. I had planned it though, as that seems to be my bottleneck right now and I run A LOT of graphics replacers.

 

I have similar concerns regarding liquid cooling. I opted for a stacked (air) cooler that's rated for about twice that of my processors's output (another reason for that tower case)

[Skinjack]

I have a really nice fan that I bought for my processor cooling but even with a full size tower I had to push out the mesh on the side cover a bit or it would contact and rub. Its really close. I've been looking at smaller PC's that still pack a punch like the Corsair One Pro 200, but there is really no expand-ability at all and I believe it uses a mini-ATX board. Although from what I've been reading it does have room for 3 NVMe harddrives. And it is really small but still has everything I want. Could sit right on my desktop. Been reading about the liquid cooled cpu/gpu still getting hot, though. And its kinda pricey for limited expand-ability. For another 600 I could get that Digital Storm machine my wife said no to.

[Indio21]

IDK much about MSI MBs besides coming across reviews searching that last time. I did really fall in love with ASUS' bios system and such though. I got hooked on the Gigabyte boards for a bit from my friend. I'd suggest searching reviews on Utube and such. PC builders and especially gamers get very proud of their systems and publish the info on #s, case temps, etc. I wouldn't trust the write up on towers alone as they all have their "sales pitch" and do not think I have seen one that did not say it was "designed" for ventilation. Searching for reviews will give you the most updated info.

 

Looking over it does not look bad. It is water cooled though so this is an out of the box system. Basically plug and go. It is running the M.2 Socket and that is what the 1 TB drive is. Basically same as mine but a 1 TB so that is great. If you read on all the tech stuff it talks some about the M.2 socket and why it is sooo much faster.

 

With a very quick look over the prices of some individual components: MB $180; NVMe drive $220; HDD $80; Vcard $1130; CPU $500; comes to a total of $2110. Still need prices for the cooling system, RAM, tower, fans, cables, etc so it really does not look bad for an overall price from this view.

 

Now this is a shop in Richmond, VA so if problems do occur you are going to have some hassle getting it to and from. Most those kinds of situations I have seen they warranty it, meaning work and such, but you foot the bill to get it to them and back possibly. I did not take the time to go over all the fine print. Either or, now your nice new machine has to bounce around the postal service for such trips.

 

Now that you got all the specs and such you could do some calls to local PC shops, give them the list of components you want to use, and see what kind of deal they will give you. Either or, you end up with the exact same machine.

 

Now that is funny as MI is home for me! Grew up in a nowhere village up in the tip of the mit. Why the 4x4 growing up as those back dirt roads would have killed a muscle car or most any for that matter. Yep mud and snow, that's MI lol. Also the only reason I said I may not have shelled out the $$ for the 8 Gb card is only cause I am new to modding and PC gaming. After weighing in the factors, and especially how much I like mods now being exposed, I most likely would have and especially if I found a sale.

 

No big surprise to me as I am very "paced" in making decisions that make me part from my hard earned dollars. Probably had two weeks into research off and on for this build and took another month gathering components about. Watching for sales on the components saves me a lot.

 

Concerning the 64 gbs of ram, like I mentioned the 32 gbs I have pushes all those systems just fine and like I said I can be running them all too. The old #s on said systems used to be smaller a few years back. When I was instructing part time for the college here I started doing some work with a mastercam/solidworks reseller. I had to bring in my pc to get some software loaded up and after telling them I ran 32 gbs of ram and have no problem running both MC and SWs was not long after and I noticed now both have a min of 32 for system requirements lol. So don't let that scare you as they originally specified much less. Just SW and MC go pretty much hand in hand for most manufacturing companies now a days. Food for thought.

 

Also about the Windows 10 update. Still believe MS is offering the free update from older OSs. Is how I got my win 10 pro

Edited March 30, 2020 by Indiao21

[Skinjack]

I'm not looking to buy right now. The world has pretty much been put on hold and even the stuff ordered online has grown so much in volume the last week or two I'd be foolish to order it now and expect it to get here in one piece. Gives me time to look around, though. I know Digital Storm was knocking 500 of my price when I spec'ed it (down to 5100) but I still have a long way to go before I get the wife's approval on it. No biggie. I'm patient. I'm just reading stuff and familiarizing myself with what's out there now.

 

So where are you from in MI? I'm just north of Flint in Mt. Morris. Moved here after my stroke to be next to her family so she wouldn't have to deal with it alone if something else happened to me. My family is in Rhode Island. Would have gone there, but my family is a soap opera and I don't like dramas. :smile:

 

I was pleasantly surprised how much they got into the Corsair One Pro 200 when I was checking it out. I9-10940, 64GB RAM, GTX 2800ti videocard, liquid-cooled CPU and GPU, 3 NVMe slots. Really sucks I can't get past the one review saying the processor got hot, because I could envision something like that not taking up half my desktop area. And its limited expand-ability. I've got 6 harddrives connected to my computer, 1 external and 5 internal. I could get away with the external one, but I don't know how many of the others I could get in there. One, maybe two, probably. I really don't need the beast I've got now anymore since I no longer do IT or CAD for a living (I am kinda anal about backups, though) so I could probably get a smaller machine and use dual external for backup drives. Long story on that one. I lost a quarter's worth of work one time that the next quarter was building on, so I spent my entire time between quarters rebuilding what I had lost. Lesson learned. So much for my vacation. Actually, with the NVME slots I could have my OS on one, Steam and game/mods on another, and my programs on a third with everything else external. Hmmmm. I may have to look at those reviews again. Maybe it was a bad one or something.

 

I actually downloaded a copy of Windows 10 to install on this computer, I just haven't done it yet. Scared of screwing up my mod order right now because I know I'll be that 1 in 1,000,000 that has a problem installing it and have to wipe my computer completely. :laugh: I think the free update technically ended Jan 2019, but if you know where to look you can still find the MS update. They just don't advertise it anymore. I'm thinking of moving to MO2 anyway, since a lot of the tutorials these days I need are for MO2. I used to use MO1, so it's not going to be a big change for me. The only reason I switched to NMM and then Vortex was Tannin moved on to writing for Vortex and stopped supporting it.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Skinjack

[Indio21]

Much farther north than Flint. A city more known would be Traverse City, MI. That area approx is where I grew up. Nope, never been to RI, I hear it is pretty though. No we headed west when the wife got a job opportunity.

 

No, MS hadn't advertised the link in a long time. It was actually supposed to be cut off a long time ago but the link still worked when I used it just a couple months ago. I loved Win7 and was not willing to part with it so I waited until the very end of support for 7 before switching.

 

About the only thing I know about the ATX boards is they are designed for the smaller cases for space, etc. But smaller case means less volume of air around said components. Will take less time to establish temps and possibility of higher ones for the amount of space. Do not think ATX is sought after for PCs that will be really worked for gaming and such, but not updated on the tech now a days. For PC classes and such, forever ago, was always said basically a MB for space saving pcs. Logical thinking applied though, if one gets a 100% of performance and longevity from a standard size MB, what did they have to cut to make the same system work in a smaller board? In a day in age of tech being about faster AND smaller if there is no loss, why is not everyone making MBs that size :/.....food for thought.

 

Now I am not knowledgeable on this newer tech of liquid cooling and such. I do know it helps with the longevity of the cpu and as much as I preach on longevity I cannot knock it. But, I was there full blown for the transition from tube type tech to solid state, not to show my age :( lol. Solid state is fantastic and especially with heat. Said components are designed to reach temps and keep on ticking. This is why a lot of people never shut down pcs and servers. To solid state the process of heating and cooling does the most damage and it is very minimal. Think about how long roads in MI would last if we only had one season and no expansion and contraction from heat and cold. Basically same applies here.

 

Knowing that on solid state is why I have not shelled out the $$ for a liquid cooled system. As long as the cpu runs in its recommended temps most likely it is going to be the energizer bunny and still be running when you do decide to update again. If tech did not move at the speed it does now I could build a pc and after a decade I only missed out on a little of the latest tech during, it would not bother me to spend the $$. But, that is the exact reason I will do two builds during a time span of your one. At least that is what life keeps bring me anyways. Seems like I get a new hobby, whatever and then my pc cannot push it, so upgrade time lol.

 

Now all this software I have is from the home learning editions as a few years back I decided to return to school and get a degree to compliment my years of experience. I had to run all this software to complete classes so I built the pc. All but MC are fully functional but some higher end features of MC are locked out. Because they are learning versions there is nothing that can be done with the work is all. Because I am a vet and worked for the college the software manufacturers give better perks to me is why said software is still active for me to use. Time is running out though :(.

 

Fortunately, Jimmy chimming in helped reassure me on factors of upgrade ability for the future. After he said that made sense because if they did stop offering said tech/connections society would loose legacy support of such devices, but is for situations that he gave examples on that I do not over shoot on the bells and whistles to say. He lost some serious $$ on those drives and by his writings I am assuming they still work just fine. For a relating example and probably a bad one but you will get the drift, if I had bought something like a fancy liquid cooler and could not carry it forward it is a waste at the end to me. Now I still have a fully functioning cooling unit that I cannot use because of tech changing times. If lucky I might be able to sell it on ebay or to a pc shop possibly, but most likely at 25% of cost if lucky. It is outdated and no one is looking for it besides maybe someone trying to upgrade their pc on a budget.

 

I still have the old components from past builds and all still run just fine, even my XP machine :o. If my friend still did all that and I was there, I'd have given it to him for my parts on the new build. Meaning fans, thermal paste, etc little things I needed. Outdated tech is still outdated tech for value, but can be made use of. You already know none of my systems ever been liquid cooled just to say something about solid state components. I count on it to build a solid and reliable machine that I know will be guaranteed to still be running when I need the upgrade, basically been about every 5 to maybe 7 years at most, and keep costs down because I do a build/upgrade a little sooner.

 

I'd forget the ATX build and continue focus on pcs like the first you showed for what you do and want, unless you absolutely need those few inches of desk top space.

[Skinjack]

Ooooh, Traverse City Pies. Now I'm hungry.

 

I'm beginning to think I should just go back to thinking about air cooled and not borrow trouble with water in an electronic system. Its what I know and has never let me down (except when my fan died). It doesn't complicate the system. Liquid cooled cpu/gpu would be nice on my dream list, but can I really justify the price if an air cooled system does the same or similar. Dammit. I think she's talking me down now.

 

I did find a weird looking pc series in my travels, though. https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-000J-00018?Description=deepcool%20quadstellar&cm_re=deepcool_quadstellar-_-9SIAC3J91W0955-_-Product&quicklink=true

Haven't seen any reviews on the design, and you would think if it was a great as they are saying it would have more. But again, I'm curious how something like that, which also isolates parts in different chambers, actually works for airflow. I think that's just the latest "Fad-thing" to get people convinced they need it. Back to basics. I've gone off on enough wild tangents.

[Indio21]

Lol, yep cherry festival. Always a nice time. The failing fan is the main reason I never cheap out on the fans. One can never predict a component failure though for anything but better quality sure reduces the odds to me. Fan on the cpu fails most likely only loose the cpu. Liquid shorts out and might loose it all :o!

 

The horror stories on failing liquid cooled systems scared me too. Liquid cooled is on my "dream list" too but until software and systems "require" such, it is not a factor for me on a good stable system.

 

That is why I emphasis the research on ventilation case flow and standard seen operating temps for builds. With as high tech software as SW I have seen them show airflow simulations through cases and such, upon research, and that was a few years back when I did the last build making sure my case was going to suffice. Even remember like thermal scans of cases to show stagnate air spots that hold higher temps because of bad ventilation designs, which is the problem with my XBlade case. Now a days might be standard for pc review sites, etc to show said info, IDK, but worth the search for the "feel good" on a new system.

 

Yeah, just search reviews and Utube and such on cases, systems, etc. It is not about an having an exact apples to apples comparison. They run all the same basic levels of hardware in a diff case just look up the specs on the case they show compared to the one your considering. Evaluate fan placement and cubic inches of case volume for comparisons to theirs on their reports of case temps and such. It will definitely get you in the "infield" for an approx of what you will end up with.

 

If they really show it off opening it up and you can see if they are running the max size fans for the case or not, allows for better evaluation of said temps for the case. Ex, their case is a little larger than one your looking at but they not running the max size fan they could in one and or all areas. If you can run that same max size fan in your case you will get same or possibly better cooling #'s than they show with same said level of hardware. So you know your case would be adequate, again for an "infield" approximation.

[Skinjack]

I did a little research last night and you do appear to be correct on ASUS motherboards. They are better (don't want to start a whole MSI vs Gigabyte vs ASUS topic) than MSI and Gigabyte when it comes to the BIOS. I've watched several videos now where the maker just prefers it. As stated, the MSI BIOS is a nightmare. I'm actually running an ASUSTeK P6X58D Premium now on my computer. Bought it with that one in mind when I was dreaming I would play with overclocking, but never did because I read it could put unnecessary strain on your components. Back in my novice days. Since I get new computers so few and far in-between I didn't feel like accidentally frying this one. I could just see how that conversation would go with my wife. Probably end with "You're SOL until we can afford a new one - about five years from now." :laugh:

 

My problem with many pre-built machines is I don't know whether the box is well ventilated without just having it built myself by a custom maker like Digital Storm and hand-picking the parts. I guess a good place to start is 140mm fans with higher output and a dedicated fan/heatsink for the cpu like I have now. But an examle is the Corsair One. I watched a few videos on that last night and it did perform very well under loads for the CPU/GPU, but there were too many things he wanted to fix in other videos of the series. Ram, motherboard (it is MSI, he went ASUS), fan, etc. But he did overclock it considerably (I think it failed at 5.1) which he said is surprising for a mini-computer like that. He doesn't normally recommend overclocking minis.

 

I think I will take my liquid cooled build with Digital Storm and scale it back to regular air cooled to see what it does for price. At least that way I will still have my expand-ability. And I'm slowly narrowing components down. Now I know I want to stick with an ASUS motherboard, so that takes away part of the equation. Just need to figure out which. And I've got RAM, CPU, GPU figured out. I think today I'll focus on fans and cpu heatsink/fan combos to see what I can find. Any suggestions on the heatsink? Right now I have a Cooler Master Hyper 212 installed, but I put that in several years ago and don't know how it has stood the test of time.

 

EDIT: Looks like I'll be looking at Noctua NH-D15 fan/heatsink. 140mm dual fans, 82cfm, 5 star, best fan for 2020. I saw some prettier ones (the CoolerMaster V8 has the same cfm, but not as high rating - but it is cool looking) but the Noctua is more practical. Plus it comes with a 6 year warranty. Looks like I may have to install afterwards though. Haven't found a PC maker yet that uses them where I could afford the build.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Skinjack

[Indio21]

IDK about "correct" as I don't want to start a debate either, but I do really like their set up! I just really enjoy all the "bells and whistles" in the bios for case control, monitoring, etc. This is my first run with ASUS but I liked them sooo much I went and got their ROG laptop and that machine is just as tough as this MB is proving to be. I run my first LO on it of around 150 mods and nothing shows it cannot handle it. I know what they say about gaming on laptops and it is not my plan to keep doing so, but my wife plays the heck out of that LO for lots of hours at a time. I just moved it all to it so I could use the desktop pc for working through this larger LO and then she can play.

 

I don't OC my pcs either for the same reasons. I do have some decent understanding of it from back in those mad scientist days. My friend knew lots of gamers down state that loved to take it all to the max they could. Now a days with tech the way it is I'd only do it if I absolutely had to and was not able to swing the upgrades or something. I just always bought gaming hardware because of the quality example I gave on the fans. Gamers work their machines and manufactures that want to keep selling to them have to be able to provide something tough and enduring to do it. So for the money diff it has never been a concern to me over personal/home use hardware. Probably exactly why I have never had a problem :smile:

 

Well I should clarify in case the 970 EVO drive is throwing anyone off. Originally I built it with the 850 EVO SSD, but about a month after the warranty was up it died, grrr. So as I only had to purchase it I upgraded to the 970 and that has been about 2 years now or more, if memory serves correctly. Just one of those one in a thousand odds probably. That literally is the only component failure I have came across for me.

 

The heat sink and fan for the cpu I have had a while, but that is a great ball bearing drive fan, do not remember manufacturer now, and the heat sink I really liked when I got it for the engineering design. That is why I just reused it for the i5.

 

You can dive more into the "reverse engineering" to say seeing their pcs. I just gave fan "size" for a quick and easy example. If you can see identification to manufacturer you can pull the specs yourself to figure total CFM they are pushing through the case. Was what I did because my case was already soooo old. Like I said it will get you in the ball park :wink:

Edited March 30, 2020 by Indiao21

[Skinjack]

Do you think the ASUS ROG Rampage Extreme is worth the extra money? I found an ASUS ROG Strix X299 with the same specs or similar except 1 less M.2 slot (3) for $250 less. I could buy a lot of case fans with that. :smile: They both go to 256GB RAM if I ever wanted to expand. I don't think its worth the extra money. Plus the Rampage seems hard to come by.

Rampage - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZK7JTLL/ref=psdc_1048424_t2_B07YD7GHJ6

Strix - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YD7GHJ6/ref=psdc_1048424_t1_B07ZK7JTLL

 

Thinking about just building my own. Forgot I have a nephew whose into building these things, and his son is too. That way I can pick the parts I want instead of relying on a third party's limited selection. Everyone just seems to be pushing water cooled these days, and I know I had that removed from this PC (stopped working) and went to air cooled and never looked back.

 

I can actually buy the parts individually and come a lot closer to my wife's price. So, something to be said about happy wife...

Edited March 30, 2020 by Skinjack