How does magic work

[EnaiSiaion]

Every fantasy game treats magic the same, and usually in a way that has little to do with fantasy books and any other medium essentially. This has to do with competitive balance, shoehorning mages into the same combat template as warriors and archers (same reason why people can fire crossbows about as fast as they can swing a sword) but it tends to make magic stick out like a sore thumb.

 

Everything can be explained in universe, but it seems games rarely bother and I'm not sure if the TES series bothers. The books are fun to read individually, but the 200-something books in Skyrim in the CK are tl;dr and the previous games have a ton of books which are entirely out of my reach.

 

Facts that deserves an explanation, #1: casting a spell takes a couple of seconds at most yet you have to dedicate yourself to magical studies, learn spells from tomes that rival War and Peace, and apparently monkey see monkey do is not a valid way to learn spells.

 

This could be explained by magic being a mental exercice that requires much practice, like the Thu'um. Instead, there is some lore about energy redirection and a bit of tech behind it all, which fails at explaining the more esoteric spell effects like making enemies flee and "fortify lockpicking". It seems unlikely that everything can just be explained as sufficiently advanced science.

 

There are the usual tropes like self destructing spellbooks (a bit of fridge logic here: university textbooks are typically ruined by the end of the year) and Super Trouper spell effects colour coded along Jedi/Sith lines, but that can be forgiven. I suppose.

 

It's more about what magic is actually supposed to be in the TES universe so one (read: me) can take a look at what doesn't fit and fix that...

[Zinnorokkrah]

In the ES universe, magic was used by the Et'Ada- who are the Divines & the Daedra, and maybe the ancestors of the Merethic races. It is described as a creative force that keeps the world in check, and working. In that way, it works like qi [commonly known as chi], a life-force exerted by all living things and even the world itself to sustain existence. The Aedra are Et'Ada who live in Aetherius, the realm from which all pure magicka flows, and as such, are the beings most closely tied to the world and its workings. In that way- they are more powerful than the Daedra, but more limited in their use of that power, as the Daedra aren't tied down to anything.

 

To answer your question about spell-casting, if we take into account that casting a 'spell' is just redirecting the magicka which helps fuel your body [Meaning maximum magicka is really maximum useable magicka], then you could use your magicka to effect someone else's. Say, for example, that the neural system helps distribute magicka throughout the body- using a Fear Spell would alter that flow of energy, causing the brain to release the hormones and chemicals associated with fear and a quick retreat for self-preservation whereas a Fortify Lock-picking enchantment would be using an amulet [a piece of magical technology] redirecting that energy to yourself to affect the connects between neuron paths associated with dexterity and problem-solving, thus making you able to asses, feel, and then pick the lock more easily.

 

Regarding the books- as far as I can understand, they are the spell in its entirety; the knowledge, the direction of energy, everything you'd need to know. Now- some people, like Merethic races and Bretons, are more inclined to use magic than others. Those with the inclination learn magic faster. When the knowledge within the tome is absorbed entirely, it follows that the tome would disappear. Scrolls are different, in that they perform the spell once- and that's it. The player, being a destiny driven hero, is more inclined towards magic than pretty much anyone else in that particular game, which would be why they can learn the spell almost instantaneously. Or maybe that's just an over-simplification to explain the game engine on my part.

 

In any case, I hope you found this helpful. I could be wrong, but this is how I understand it from the ES universe and the lore provided. If anyone knows better, feel free to correct me; I always like to learn.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Zinnorokkrah

[Relativelybest]

Question: Who actually makes all those single-use spellbooks and scrolls?

 

I mean, they are destroyed after one use, meaning any single book can only teach a single spell to a single mage, and yet there are a ton of these things - enough to support a whole social class of mages without them being especially rare. Someone must be massproducing them. Is there some kind of magical order or organization that does nothing but create spellbooks? Are they rich? They should be, since every new mage depends on them to learn spells. (And not even the large mage organizations in the games seem to have the capacity to make their own books, so it's obviously a very exclusive craft.) You'd think these people would have a very noticable presence in the games. You'd think they would have a lot of sway over the mage organizations, and that the Empire would want to keep an eye on them seeing as some of the spells they produce and presumably sell are easily classified as lethal weapons. Maybe these guys are sitting on some really powerful magic nobody else has even heard about because they are deliberatelly being kept off the market?

 

Seriously, I'd love to know what the official story is, because this seems like a pretty big hole in the narrative.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Relativelybest

[UrgeNexus]

Question: Who actually makes all those single-use spellbooks and scrolls?

 

I mean, they are destroyed after one use, meaning any single book can only teach a single spell to a single mage, and yet there are a ton of these things - enough to support a whole social class of mages without them being especially rare. Someone must be massproducing them. Is there some kind of magical order or organization that does nothing but create spellbooks? Are they rich? They should be, since every new mage depends on them to learn spells. (And not even the large mage organizations in the games seem to have the capacity to make their own books, so it's obviously a very exclusive craft.) You'd think these people would have a very noticable presence in the games. You'd think they would have a lot of sway over the mage organizations, and that the Empire would want to keep an eye on them seeing as some of the spells they produce and presumably sell are easily classified as lethal weapons. Maybe these guys are sitting on some really powerful magic nobody else has even heard about because they are deliberatelly being kept off the market?

 

Seriously, I'd love to know what the official story is, because this seems like a pretty big hole in the narrative.

I read over on the TES Lore subreddit a while back that there is a method of duplicating written works with magic, a spell equivalent of the printing press if you will. I can't remember the source off hand though so take it with a grain of salt. Before that spell was invented, books were simply copied by hand by scribes, as you would see in our own world before the printing press was invented.

 

This is conjecture at best, but I assume spell books are created entirely through magic. Perhaps a mage can imbue his own knowledge of a spell into a blank book, creating a spell book. It's the only theory I have on spellbooks that makes sense to me. As for who makes them, who knows? The Synod and College of Whispers don't seem more nterested in politics than education, but it's possible they still have to perform some o the duties previously performed by the Mages Guild under Imperial Law, I doubt the Empire would let the Synod or College of Whispers get away with ignoring education of mages entirely. By that logic, the College of Winterhold may also be producing spellbooks, if my theory on their production is right.

 

That being said, I don't think spellbooks are the only way to learn spells. Tolfdir teaches you a Ward, Feralda teaches you one of several spells when you take a test to be allowed entry. They don't give you spellbooks, they simply teach you the spell. I image spellbooks are just the easiest way for todays young dynamic mage on the go.

 

EDIT: Seeing as you seem interessted in the Lore of the Elder Scrolls. I would recommend heading over to reddit.com/r/teslore. It's a great subreddit filled with some very knowledgeable people who are usually quite good at citing sources, I've learned a lot from lurking there and reading.

Edited December 17, 2012 by UrgeNexus

[Lachdonin]

Think of the books a lot like knowlege of Thu'um. Understanding can be magically passed from one individual to the next through what ammounts to magical telepathy. We know suchs a communication is possible, because it was used during meetings of the Elder Council to keep everyone up to speed. Now, admitedly, the Elder Council was at the time composed almost exclusively of powerful mages of one sort or another, but the point still stands... The Spell Books obviously contain the knowlege of the spell in something more than written form, thus eliminating the need for practice. They don't seem to contain TRUE knowlege of the magic involved, as theres no avenue for spell crafting, but they give the reader the ability to harness the specifict rituals, gestures and flow of magicka needed to use a single spell. However, because in using the book, you literally take that enscrolled knowlege into yourself, it becomes useless literature after that.

 

Likewise, Scrolls could function on the same principal, with the added economic clause that you forget everything about how to do it after the spell is cast. Otherwise, they would be like other enchanted items, but because of the quality of the material, they can't survive more than a single use. Which is actually something that's been absent since Oblivion, the idea that different materials have different tollerances for Enchanting. Anyway, i would assume that, prior to its collapse, most Scrolls were made by the Mages Guild. Now, it's probably the Synod of the College of Whispers which does the dirty work.

 

To be specific on where magic comes from, however... The sun and Stars. In the last stages of the world forming, many of the more powerful Et'ada involved followed Magnus in leaving the world. Magnus himself judged it to be a failure, and wanted nothing more to do with it. In retreating, they tore holes through the barrier between Nirn and Aetherius, allowing the Magicka which composes the entirety of Aetherius to leak into Mundus. Magnus, being the most powerful of the retreating Et'ada, left the biggest hole, the Sun, which 'flaps shut' every night, allowing the holes of his lesser companions to be seen.

[EnaiSiaion]

Useful replies are useful. I admit I lost this thread. :)

[Jiggalopuff]

Personally, I don't feel as though anyone or anything needs to explain how magic works. When Obi-Wan Kenobi explained about "Midi-chorlians" to Anakin, that kinda ruined the whole Star Wars series for me. Think about the engineers who made catapaults, they did not understand the relationship of gravity to say, the Earth orbiting the sun. Of Course, they understood how it worked from their own observations(I.E. Newtons Apple), but they didn't need a detailed understanding to utilize it for their own means(making catapaults). Edison knew nothing about quantum physics when he invented the light bulb, he simply kept plugging in different materials until he found one that lasted. Likewise, the Mages of Cyrodil don't necessarily need to know the science(for lack of a better word) that goes the spells they cast. This is fantasy after all, not science fiction.

[MidbossVyers]

Personally, I don't feel as though anyone or anything needs to explain how magic works. When Obi-Wan Kenobi explained about "Midi-chorlians" to Anakin, that kinda ruined the whole Star Wars series for me. Think about the engineers who made catapaults, they did not understand the relationship of gravity to say, the Earth orbiting the sun. Of Course, they understood how it worked from their own observations(I.E. Newtons Apple), but they didn't need a detailed understanding to utilize it for their own means(making catapaults). Edison knew nothing about quantum physics when he invented the light bulb, he simply kept plugging in different materials until he found one that lasted. Likewise, the Mages of Cyrodil don't necessarily need to know the science(for lack of a better word) that goes the spells they cast. This is fantasy after all, not science fiction.

I actually prefer explanations for fantasy stuff. Otherwise, we might get sparkling or even worse exploding vampires (see Blade and Daybreakers). Type-Moon explains that vampires are... less than comfortable in sunlight because sunlight hastens the decay of their undying flesh. The reason that vampires drink blood is to recover their decaying organic matter. This also means that only those turned need blood, as they are undead. Those born either between 2 True Ancestor vampires or dhampirs don't need blood, but they still have that blood preference. True Ancestor vampires are more like demigods (much like dragons are to Akatosh in this game). The reason that lesser undead, like zombies, don't mind sunlight is because they do not have the mental functions to "mind", as decay, regardless of the reason, is not instantaneous. Therefore, if vampires did explode in the sun, it would be the equivalent of you eating a ham sandwich during a picnic and resulting in your head getting popped off. I mean, they're vampires, not environmentally friendly terrorists (solar-powered suicide bombers). I don't know about the running water thing, but it's most likely that vampires can't swim, so taking a boat (or nowadays, a plane) would easily remedy that. The only reason vampires are afraid of garlic is because its strong smell is even stronger to a vampire's sensitive sense of smell. Vampires not casting reflections is stupid, as well. The "common" reason for that is that certain sources say that vampires do not have souls. However, they clearly do, as they have sentience, and in this game, you not only can soul-trap them, you also need to use Black Soul Gems, which are needed for human-level targets. Even if that were true though, the fact of the matter is that EVERYTHING ELSE has a reflection, including pencils and chairs. Based on that logic, is one supposed to assume that pencils and chairs have more "soul" than vampires? That's stupid. So yeah, you can take a fantasy concept and apply reasonable enough explanations to it.

Edited January 5, 2013 by MidbossVyers

[ShadCroly]

I'm going to dip a bit into Tabletop RPG mechanics here, but I think the core principle of the matter still applies: Why do scrolls and spell books disappear after a single use? Because they're Spell Completion items.

 

Spell Completion items are a fully powered spell that just needs to activate. When you create a scroll, the process is pretty much casting the spell but pausing the effect at the last second before it manifests in reality and sticking it into a piece of paper. You don't have to pay any Magicka cost, because that cost was already paid when the scroll was created. Activating the spell completion item unpauses the effect and the page the magic was stored in is destroyed in the process. Now, a scroll is a very typical spell completion item, as all they do is replicate a spell effect. A spell tome is no-doubt much more advanced, requiring multiple pages, because you're not manifesting the spell, you're transferring knowledge of the spell into the mind of the person using the spell tome, which would realistically take more effort and require more magic to do right (after all, you don't want to set on fire someone wanting to learn Firebolt).

 

Now, this differs from staves, as those are just spell trigger items: in short, items similar to spell completion items, but instead of the magicka cost of the spell being paid with the caster's own magicka reserve (or paid at the time of creation), it's using the stave's magical reserve; the upshot is that said magica reserve can be replenished indefinitely. So why not make all scrolls and spellbooks able to be recharged like this?

 

Cost. It's more expensive to make spell trigger items than it is to make spell completion items.