Debate over the Sandy Hook shooting

[Syco21]

I'm not a communist and I look out for my fellow man. I'm an idealist a pragmatist and hopefully one who will live to see the day when there will be no more Sandy Hooks or Dunblaines.

we'd all love for these things to never happen. unfortunately that's like asking the sun to not rise.

so, do you still believe the needs of the many outweigh the need of the few?

 

 

[HeyYou]

I still have yet to see some clarification on IF an assault weapon was even USED in the Sandy Hook incident. The original story I read flatly stated the AR was left in the truck of moms car. It seems to have morphed since then.

[naomis8329]

I believe that we should never put ourselves before others when it comes to saving lives. Whilst I have never owned a gun, never fired one, I have wondered what it must be like to have that kind of power. Not just the power that the gun itself has, but the power over life and death. Once you pick up that type of weapon intending to use it, that is what you have, an ultimate power of life and death over someone else. That is a huge responsibility.

 

For Police officers to strap that weapon on every day and carry out their duties it must be a terrific weight knowing that they could have to use their weapon over someone else in a life and death situation. However, like soldiers, they are trained in the use of such weapons, when to use them, how to use them, how to recognise such threats. The ordinary man in the street has no such training, doesn't understand a pure threat from a true death wish.

 

Once you take a life you can never go back, everything changes. Police officers and soldiers say this all the time. Even though they are righteous shootings they have to live with the fact they took another's life and they never forget the names nor the faces of those they kill.

 

Just because you have the right to own something doesn't mean you should. Just because someone else has something, doesn't mean you should. There must come a time when you say to yourself and others "hey, maybe this wasn't such a great idea after all".

 

If you need to possess a gun why not leave it at a registered gun range where it will be secured and looked after. You can go get it, shoot it and then put it away again. If you hunt then fine use the weapons for hunting, but have a place where they can be safely stored for the rest of the time you're not using them. You don't have to have them in the house, good grief there are enough weapons in an average house without you adding a fire arm to the mix.

 

I believe in the rights which our fore fathers fought for, but those rights were made when times were horrendous and it was a "kill or be killed" time. We have moved on, times have changed, life has changed, we have become more sophisticated, more savvy, more technical, ergo shouldn't our needs have changed and shouldn't the Constitution?

[colourwheel]

I still have yet to see some clarification on IF an assault weapon was even USED in the Sandy Hook incident. The original story I read flatly stated the AR was left in the truck of moms car. It seems to have morphed since then.

 

Reguardless if the original story has stated the AR-15 was left in the car it was still at the scene of the crime. Since there is huge public pressure for gun reform even before the Sandy Hook shooting, advocating banning of such weapons has been put on the table and has given more of a reputable excuse for making more restrictions on existing gun laws.

[Syco21]

Naomi: I have more training than NYPD cops and most cops at other departments for that matter. Police firearms training is appallingly pathetic. That's why you have cops in New York shooting entire blocks. That's why bystanders are far more likely to be shot than the average citizen. By virtue of simply bring a gun enthusiast that goes to the range with any amount of frequency, we are at a default advantage over cops.

 

You want me to lock up my gun at the range? So you're saying I should have let my sisters boyfriend beat the living hell out of her? Those would be rape victims that shot their would be rapist should have just allowed themselves to be raped? Really?

 

 

Colourwheel: once again you're wrong. Before the recent shootings, support for reduction of gun control was at an all time high and support for gun control at an all time low.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Syco21

[colourwheel]

Colourwheel: once again you're wrong. Before the recent shootings, support for reduction of gun control was at an all time high and support for gun control at an all time low.

 

Ten gun bills alone have been introduced the 1st day for the 113th Congress

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/275587-10-gun-bills-introduced-in-first-day-of-the-house

 

Not sure where this pressure of support for reduction of gun control is coming from. Some of these new bills have been in work even before the Sandy Hook shooting ever happened. You seem to be forgetting about some of the other historical violent shootings in america just in 2012 alone...

 

Oak Creek, Wis.: A white supremacist shoots six people and a responding policeman at a Sikh temple before shooting himself in the head in August 2012.

 

Aurora, Colo.: Lone gunman kills 12 and injures 58 at a July 2012 screening of “The Dark Knight Rises.”

 

Oakland, Calif.: A former student at a Christian college fatally shoots seven people and injures three in April 2012.

 

I can understand your desire for this not happening in America but legislation being pressed for gun reform is happening within the next 4 years.

 

Agent Smith from the matrix - "It's Inevitable!"

Edited January 7, 2013 by colourwheel

[Syco21]

There's currently a proposed constitutional amendment that would repeal the term limits for president. This must be a highly popular initiative since it's been proposed. Amirite?

 

Just because bills have been proposed doesn't mean they're popular, that they'll ever make it out of committee, let alone to the president's desk.

 

Last I checked "shootings" was plural. Did that change?

 

You must be forgetting that the original AWB sunsetted in 2004 and couldn't get enough support to reinstate it. You must also be forgetting that Obama signed a bill removing the gun free zone designation from national parks. You must also be forgetting that many states have expanded gun rights. Most recently Oklahoma legalized open carry.

[ginnyfizz]

If you need to possess a gun why not leave it at a registered gun range where it will be secured and looked after. You can go get it, shoot it and then put it away again. If you hunt then fine use the weapons for hunting, but have a place where they can be safely stored for the rest of the time you're not using them. You don't have to have them in the house, good grief there are enough weapons in an average house without you adding a fire arm to the mix.

 

I believe in the rights which our fore fathers fought for, but those rights were made when times were horrendous and it was a "kill or be killed" time. We have moved on, times have changed, life has changed, we have become more sophisticated, more savvy, more technical, ergo shouldn't our needs have changed and shouldn't the Constitution?

 

Sorry to disagree with you my friend, but those are the sort of gun laws we have in the UK. Result - only the bad guys who don't give a brass razoo about the law, the military and the police (heaven help us in their case, of which more below)and licensed slaughterers can put their hands on firearms relatively easily. And so armed mafiosi of a very unsavoury nature run our inner cities. The largest city in my region is not called Shottingham without reason, and the hoods ain't called Robin these days. Meanwhile our world class pistol shooting team cannot train in Britain.

 

Personally, if we had more liberal gun laws and a castle law over here, I would not hesitate to point that pistol at any would be burglar/rapist, and since they would naturally assume that middle aged woman in spectacles was bluffing and would be feeling lucky, I would have to be prepared to prove that I was not. Unfortunately for them, I am a good shot.

 

Naomi: I have more training than NYPD cops and most cops at other departments for that matter. Police firearms training is appallingly pathetic. That's why you have cops in New York shooting entire blocks. That's why bystanders are far more likely to be shot than the average citizen. By virtue of simply bring a gun enthusiast that goes to the range with any amount of frequency, we are at a default advantage over cops.

 

You want me to lock up my gun at the range? So you're saying I should have let my sisters boyfriend beat the living hell out of her? Those would be rape victims that shot their would be rapist should have just allowed themselves to be raped? Really?

 

 

Colourwheel: once again you're wrong. Before the recent shootings, support for reduction of gun control was at an all time high and support for gun control at an all time low.

 

Same for the cops over here. At the time of the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes, armed forces weapons specialists expressed concern at the level of training (or lack of it) that the police firearms officers receive, in particular the lack of rigor in psychological examination of those officers. This led to a gung ho attitude and getting so pumped up that they unloaded eight shots at point blank into the head of the tragic Mr Menezes, who, according to witnesses, was already face down on the floor with his arms pinioned and under arrest. Why they were not charged with murder I will never understand.

[Syco21]

Fortunately for me,GinnyFizz, I'm 6'4" and a factory worker. I'm freaking huge. So in most cases I should just be able to give my would be assailant the "don't even think about it because I'd shatter you like a blown glass bottle" look and that'd be the end of. Unfortunately for others such as yourself, that wouldn't work too well. Especially against my size. That is the very reason I'm an advocate for less stringent gun laws and unlicensed carry. It would be virtually impossible for someone working a job with a lot of hours like mine to be able to make time to take the class and it's just about impossible for the poor to be able to buy a gun the ammo, range time and still afford the class. And it's usually the poor that need it the most. After all, look at Detroit. They have insane crime and their police force are taking huge cuts. The upper class are paying armed security contractors to patrol their neighborhoods. The middle class are buying carry and acquiring carry licenses and the poor... Well, they're poor so cares right?

 

I care and I'm sure you do too. Unfortunately those that would seek to increase the cost of the must effective means of self preservation don't seem to care as much.

 

Historically speaking, gun control has been specifically at those horrible evil, untrustworthy colored folk such as myself. If you don't believe me, do a little research. Start with the gun control laws of colonial America. You'll see.

 

Now what does all this have to do with Feinstein's bill? Well that bill would make every single handgun illegal more or less. My handgun certainly falls under the ban. The standard magazine size is 15 rounds. That's not an extended magazine. It's actually a lower capacity magazine because the original version of my gun held 16 rounds.

 

It's not extended it's not high capacity. It's less than what fits.

[naomis8329]

I guess living in the UK, gun crime, although sporadic, is limited to certain areas and committed in certain cases, by certain people. Mass slaughter on the scale of Dunblaine or Sandy Hook is very rare and out last outburst (if my memory serves) involved a criminal on the run who shot his ex-girlfriend, her new boyfriend and a police officer. He took his own life.

 

The site of his "murder" is a shrine to those who are nuts and revere him as a hero. Sorry they need their collective heads testing for bumps if you ask me.

 

I know I'm gonna get blown to pieces for saying this but I will anyway, to me (and this is my own) I'm beginning to believe that the easier guns are to obtain the easier it is to become reliant on them and use them as an end all instead of a last resort.

 

Whilst I would never have a gun in my house (mainly coz of my kids and grandkids etc, etc) I can understand why people would feel safer having them in the home.

 

I guess at the end of the day, there is no easy solution here and common sense will have to prevail. Vigilance and public awareness will also have to come to the fore and, unfortunately, strict anti-gun policies in educational establishments and other public places. Although the policing of such will be a nightmare to uphold I would imagine.

 

Then again, maybe I wishing for horses.....