Lichdom

[KILLERZombie135]

Have you thought about using the name Nether Lich instead of Demilich? As stated in the lore article:

Nether Liches were normal liches, but, for a certain time were weakened by a destruction of one of their Phylacteries.

 

I also wonder whether or not you've read The Path of Transcendence. It's a diary from Oblivion, written by a necromancer who is undergoing the transformation to a lich.

 

I remember you from the dawnspire mod that's actually one of my favorite house mods.

[sweetsnowboarding]

Haha i'm sorta watching this mad from afar lol, really dissapointed when true lichdom was disbanded, hope this one makes it. gl

[KILLERZombie135]

That's a really interesting piece of lore, op are you planning on changing the quest or will it remain the same although there is nothing really to change the quest can still remain the same you just might need to change the book and i should stop typing know :facepalm:

[kromey]

Nope, not planning on changing the quest, but I am slipping in references to The Path of Transcendence in the new fluff.

 

My philosophy vis-a-vis magic has always been that, like with any other art, there are always multiple different paths to the same (or similar enough) end result. Want a statues of yourself? No problem: Do you want to cast bronze or carve it out of marble? Want to be a lich? No problem: Which way do you want to go about it?

 

I mean, consider the Dragon Priests: They're liches. But where are their phylacteries? They don't have any -- they never made 'em. Compare that to the liches you found in Oblivion: Necromancers that crafted their own phylacteries and transferred their souls into them.

 

Multiple paths to the same result. Well, same enough, anyway.

 

Celedaen found his path to lichdom via communing with the King of Worms; Artun, in whose footsteps the player will be following, found his own way through simple hard work, ingenuity, and experimentation, not the hand-holding of some long-ago rejected god. :tongue: (Did I mention that Artun is one arrogant jerkhole? ;) )

[Deleted5045300User]

I thought Mannimarco was the King of Worms?

[skulleris]

Mannimarco WAS the king of worms, but Im pretty sure kromey meant, that Celedaen became a lich, through praying to Mannimarco, but Artun became a lich without getting his hand held through by Mannimarco.

 

We will become a lich Artun's way, not Celedaen's

[Zephyr2011]

Especially since Mannimarco is dead and he was stripped of godhood about the second he got it in the Second Era. The king of worms thing brings something interesting up though. Mannimarco was the king of worms, does that mean that after his death someone else took up that mantle? Was it exclusive to the order of the worm? Or was it for the greatest lich? (debatable given Zurin Arctus's work while Mannimarco was still around) If someone did take it up then who? Furthermore, could that be part of the plot, or part of becoming an ancient lich, stealing the mantle of King of Worms for your own.

[Nereidian]

I visited the lunar forge today with my Argonian, i'm looking forward to be able to craft my phylactery there.

[kromey]

Mannimarco WAS the king of worms, but Im pretty sure kromey meant, that Celedaen became a lich, through praying to Mannimarco, but Artun became a lich without getting his hand held through by Mannimarco.

 

We will become a lich Artun's way, not Celedaen's

Yes, exactly this. Celedaen became a lich through prayer to Mannimarco; Artun, however, did what Celedaen initially failed at and found his own way without the King of Worms' help.

 

Especially since Mannimarco is dead and he was stripped of godhood about the second he got it in the Second Era. The king of worms thing brings something interesting up though. Mannimarco was the king of worms, does that mean that after his death someone else took up that mantle? Was it exclusive to the order of the worm? Or was it for the greatest lich? (debatable given Zurin Arctus's work while Mannimarco was still around) If someone did take it up then who? Furthermore, could that be part of the plot, or part of becoming an ancient lich, stealing the mantle of King of Worms for your own.

I have to confess that I'm not as up on the lore as some in this thread (speaking of which, I've done more reading and can find nothing about Mannimarco's apotheosis or his subsequent downfall; can someone provide a link to that for me, I'm really curious), however a possible explanation for the apparent inconsistencies could be that Mannimarco wasn't stripped of all of his powers. It seems to me that it takes an incredibly powerful individual to ascend to godhood; he may have had his apotheosis stripped away, but that doesn't mean all of his power was taken from him -- he could still be an immensely powerful lich wandering the world somewhere, still possessing at least a limited ability to commune with those who worship him.

 

Alternatively, some other being -- perhaps some as-yet-unnamed Daedric lord -- could have stepped in after Mannimarco was killed and in effect usurped his worshipers. This usurper could have his own reasons for hiding within the mantle of the King of Worms.

 

Or, maybe the King of Worms does not, in fact, exist anymore, and what his worshipers attribute to him is in fact merely their own impressive feats, their own strokes of inspiration (Celedaen had spent years researching how to become a lich, is it really so much of a stretch that after calming his mind the answer suddenly came to him?), their own doing fueled only by their faith. We see similar things in the real world, where a sick patient prays for recovery and recovers (and if you're one to believe in God, the consider the equally-impressive recoveries of those who instead meditate); while many attribute this to the work of God, other theories hold that the calming effects of such faith allow the brain and the body to better focus their energies on mending.

 

Ultimately, though, I'm just not going to pretend to offer an answer. It's irrefutable that many still worship the King of Worms; the argument is whether or not there is in fact such a being anymore. It's not directly relevant here, however, as the player is following in the footsteps of Artun, who unlocked the secrets not through prayer, but through good ol' science. (Well, the scientific method applied to magic, but the scientific method nonetheless.)

 

I visited the lunar forge today with my Argonian, i'm looking forward to be able to craft my phylactery there.

I have to admit, just in my testing it's a pretty awesome feeling to be able to walk in there and actually make something truly unique, something that can't be created anywhere else in the entire world! (Well, the world of Skyrim, at any rate -- there's undoubtedly other places in the world where it can be done, the world is a pretty large place after all!)

[skulleris]

I really feel that Bethesda should add the ability to become a Lich in the next elderscrolls!