Kanarus Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The Stormcloaks wouldn't stand a chance against the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks are basically helping the Thalmor by weakening the Empire and dividing the people of Skyrim. Not true. Hammerfell was able to drive back the Thalmor alone, after the Empire abandoned them. Didn't they have a field advantage though seeing as their homes border a desert? That being said Divide and Conquer is the oldest Military Tactic in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TywinREBORN Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The Stormcloaks wouldn't stand a chance against the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks are basically helping the Thalmor by weakening the Empire and dividing the people of Skyrim. Not true. Hammerfell was able to drive back the Thalmor alone, after the Empire abandoned them.Since when is Hammerfell Stormcloak? The Redguards are highly skilled warriors and mercenaries and the Thalmor had trouble fighting in the desert climate. The Stormcloaks are a lot different and wouldn't stand a chance against the Dominion. I also believe Ulfric is just a Thalmor agent ordered to weaken the Empire while the Dominion prepares their assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanarus Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Honestly thought not considering the Racist aspects of either or conspiracies of the High elves I wish they had changed the beginning of the game a little more based on who you followed, if I follow Ralof and join the stormcloaks I always feel guilty going to whiterun and becoming thane just to turn around and sack the city. Edited December 31, 2012 by Kanarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMilla Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Since when is Hammerfell Stormcloak? The Redguards are highly skilled warriors and mercenaries and the Thalmor had trouble fighting in the desert climate. The Stormcloaks are a lot different and wouldn't stand a chance against the Dominion. I also believe Ulfric is just a Thalmor agent ordered to weaken the Empire while the Dominion prepares their assault. That's only your belief based on a book written by... guess what... a Thalmor, identifying Ulfric as an "asset". A rebel leader who weakens the Empire is a natural asset for the Thalmor even if there is no direct contact between them. If the Stormcloaks were so weak the Empire would have already wiped them out. Never underestimate the fighting prowess of people who believe that they are fighting the good fight against an oppressor. (Colonial Army vs the supposedly better trained British "Redcoats", eh?). As to Helgen: I always felt it would be highly irrational to throw my lot with those whose 'justice' almost cost me my head. For me it is difficult to warm to a faction after hearing a conversation like "Captain, she is not on the list. Does not matter, she goes to the block". So much for Imperial justice. And Balgruuf's snotty kids do not help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyMilla Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Ya, I don't like their racism. At least the Empire is civilized and tolerant of all races. As exemplified by the Count and Countess of Leyawiin, and their attitude towards the "beast folks". http://forums.nexusmods.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/rolleyes.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Honestly thought not considering the Racist aspects of either or conspiracies of the High elves I wish they had changed the beginning of the game a little more based on who you followed, if I follow Ralof and join the stormcloaks I always feel guilty going to whiterun and becoming thane just to turn around and sack the city. Wait until after you sack the city, then become thane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanarus Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Honestly thought not considering the Racist aspects of either or conspiracies of the High elves I wish they had changed the beginning of the game a little more based on who you followed, if I follow Ralof and join the stormcloaks I always feel guilty going to whiterun and becoming thane just to turn around and sack the city. Wait until after you sack the city, then become thane? I don't even know if that is possible since I have never done it I have no idea if the new Jarl is scripted for the Dragonborn starting questline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giagun Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) The Stormcloaks are indeed about as Racist as you can get and the Empire is at least tolerant of the other races of course the "High Elf Overseers" of the Empire are just as Racist as the Stormcloaks. The Thalmor are not part the Empire, they have sent ambassadors to make sure the Empire honors the treaty and I don't think signing a treaty makes you part of a nation. Especially since the Thalmor and Empire hate each other. Also considering the Empire has ruled for hundreds of years with a tolerant, civilized and free opportunity society as well as keeping Oblivion out of Nirn before the crisis as well as stopping it. While the Thalmor are bent on high elven domination and taking their continent back. I don't see how because they are forced to let Thalmor ambassadors and such in makes them just as racist. All your point proves in fact is that the Stormcloaks are just as racist as the Thalmor, not the Empire. Edited December 31, 2012 by Giagun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Hammerfell didn't 'Beat back' the Domminion. They held a stalemate against a militarily devistated Domminion, which left the most densely populated regions of Hammerfel in a state of ruin. They did this by relying on Legionaires who had been 'discharged' for the sole purpose of holding Hammerfell at any cost. That's only your belief based on a book written by... guess what... a Thalmor, identifying Ulfric as an "asset". A rebel leader who weakens the Empire is a natural asset for the Thalmor even if there is no direct contact between them. If the Stormcloaks were so weak the Empire would have already wiped them out. Never underestimate the fighting prowess of people who believe that they are fighting the good fight against an oppressor. (Colonial Army vs the supposedly better trained British "Redcoats", eh?). Now, first, Thalmor doccuments indicate that they maintained semi regular contact with Ulfric until just after the Markarth incedent. Whether he was a willing participant or an unwitting stooge is irrelivent, that there was contact, and that his actions work in line with Domminion makes him suspect. Second, the Empire COULD put down the rebellion with ease. Both Rikke and Tullius say as much. The problem is, the Legion won't even commit an actual army, forcing Tullius to recruit locally. Why? Again, because the real Legions are on the Domminion border, preparing for another war. Third, if you were familiar with your American History, you would know that the British Marines had the revolition all but defeated, and withdrew to deal with issues in France, leaving Hessan mercenaries to clean up. By the time the absolute incompetance of the Germans was made apparent, the Colonial Army had swelled with recruits after numerous victories against the Hessans, and the British were unable to regain the nessessary footing to put Washington back in his place. It was not a matter of supposedly superior troops, it was the divided focus of the British and the reliance on unreliable mercenaries. Finally, the emotional response to Helgen is appropriate, but determining right and wrong, valid and invalid through emotional impulse is a terrible way to base an arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanarus Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The Stormcloaks are indeed about as Racist as you can get and the Empire is at least tolerant of the other races of course the "High Elf Overseers" of the Empire are just as Racist as the Stormcloaks. The Thalmor are not part the Empire, they have sent ambassadors to make sure the Empire honors the treaty and I don't think signing a treaty makes you part of a nation. Especially since the Thalmor and Empire hate each other. Also considering the Empire has ruled for hundreds of years with a tolerant, civilized and free opportunity society as well as keeping Oblivion out of Nirn before the crisis as well as stopping it. While the Thalmor are bent on high elven domination and taking their continent back. I don't see how because they are forced to let Thalmor ambassadors and such in makes them just as racist. All your point proves in fact is that the Stormcloaks are just as racist as the Thalmor, not the Empire. I said the High Elves are Racist not the Empire. If you hadn't noticed the empire can't seem to do anything without the Approval of the Thalmor an Example you do the peace meeting between the EMPIRE and STORMCLOAKS and who is right there demanding they be allowed to participate?........If you guess Thalmor you are correct and get a cookie if not then go sit in the corner. Thalmor have conducted "purges" of the Wood Elves in the past and you can bet they are not inviting them over for tea and crackers they also secretly Kidnap Nords in Skyrim "which is EMPIRE territory" who they believe to be Worshiping Talos. Personal Experience on this one, I got attacked by a band of Thalmor on the road because one of them believed I was a Talos Worshiper so they may not be a part of the Empire but they are the ones in control not the Imperial Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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