Why you should join the Stormcloaks.

[GeneralTullius]

I reckon that Thalmor wouldn't mind a Stormcloak victory. With a weakened Skyrim, exhausted troops...many wounded and tired of fighting Stormcloak soldiers just wanting to go back to their homes, it would be easy for the Thalmor, who have been growing in strength, to bring in troops via the north west coast..plus who would stop them marching through Imperial lands to get to Skyrim... and take Skyrim. Who would help the Stormcloaks? Not the Imperials thats for sure. And what better place for them to start their genocide of men than the place men first occupied in Tamriel? The home of Talos worship

I really don't think the Thalmor even care about the Stormcloaks. The Thalmor, the Elves, think in long terms and the understanding I got from Ondolomor was they were prepared for this. The Civil War going on now in Skyrim is really because of them. You can read the Thalmor Dossier for yourself on Ulfric Stormcloak and there are some other fine sources as well. The real question you need to ask yourself is: "Would Ulfric Stormcloak and his followers had still found a reason to rebel if the White Gold Concordant had never been signed." On oppression. Yes, the Empire is oppressive, but so are the Stormcloaks. And I don't need to write a novel on it to explain that when you... take something from someone else, by using force... that is an example of oppression. That said, the Stormcloaks have oppressed Markarth and Whiterun. Doesn't matter why they did it, point is they did it. They used oppression as a means to an end. Seriously please stop whining about how oppressive the Empire is when your own faction is really doing the same thing in the name of their cause. Please Stormcloaks, be respectful of the differences between us because the fate of the Empire has not yet been decided in lore, this is just the beginning. We have no idea what's going to happen next and neither do you. We can only speculate. All I'm saying is this is a free and open forum and everyone here should be able to express themselves. If you don't like the way we think, there are numerous other forums around the Nexus that you can go to. When your post exceeds three times the length of my screen, that could be considered oppression. A society where everyone agrees on everything or is forced to agree is Fascism. Another thing too, what shouldn't be overlooked is how many Nords are present in the Imperial Legion. They're like the sand on the sea. Obviously for many of them, the White Gold Concordant doesn't really matter, they can look past that. Except for the Stormcloaks of course but they're not Legion. I don't think Nord culture is really being threatened here, because as Jarl Baalgruuf said, the Nords are the Legion. The Legion, the Empire, the Emperor, all of it is Nord Culture itself. Not making this up folks, the devil is always in the details. By destroying these three elements, you are in fact destroying Nord culture and Nord contributions to Tamriel. The White Gold Concordant was awful and never should have been signed however, that's small change. I can't see any since getting all worked up over loosing $100 when you stand to loose a million. At least the Legion still stands for law and order, even if it's unpopular. A charismatic cause usually stands wherever the center of it tells them to and their basic foundations can very easily shift overnight, depending on the mental state of their leader. Ulfric has followers, the Legion has soldiers.

Edited March 8, 2013 by GeneralTullius

[ruvuk]

I was starting to like the stormcloaks, but when I finally got my slow-poke guy over to Rifken, I got an earful from the non-Nords who live around the cloaks, and I wasn't impressed. Plus, I stopped by Ulfric's palace to say hi and left wishing that I'd given the place a skip.

 

For now . . . I stop by the Talos shrines (Skyrim and Rifken) . . . but I really don't like any of the factions . . . I don't know if I can play the game out w/o joining one group or another, but I guess I'll find out . . . Right now, I'm on my own--I left my sidekick Lydia in the Whiterun palace banquet hall, and I'm living in a cave <lol> --Sounds dumb, but I actually like the dragons better than any of the people. Sure, the dragons come after me sometimes, but my gut feeling is that, somehow, the conflict between my guy and the dragons is our (shared) destiny.

 

[i'm still new to the game--level 20-odd--so don't spoil anything by mentioning how thing's will turn out. :o) ]

[TheLoreSeeker]

I keep joining the Legion because I believe in Tiber Septim's view of a united Empire.....but that Ulfric Stormcloak is one charismatic S.O.B. ....it's hard to turn away from him some times.... Plus Ralof! I love that guy!

"But if the war you're refering to, then I'm on the side of Whiterun."

Edited March 11, 2013 by TheLoreSeeker

[Patranka]

I was about to join stormcloaks (i was on empire side in my 1st play) but after reading this topic seems that ulfric is only looking after his ass

[gaminggriffin]

I'm playing it safe and joining the empire because the way I see it, joining the stormcloaks is gonna get everybody killed, just imagine it, if the stormcloaks win and beat the empire the elves are gonna show and kill everybody but if they lose the empire gonna show up and kill everybody, so it's a lose-lose but siding with the empire is much safer.

[RatcatcherOfKvatch]

Where you stand seems to be dependent on where you sit. From the Gray Quarter the Thalmor seem distant and abstract compared to the dismal reality of Stormcloak rule. If you're a mage anti-magic prejudice makes Empire seem a no-brainer ... until you become Archmage. That changes everything.

 

If you're the Archmage Ulfric is the only choice. Once those two Thalmor agents died any illusion of "Neutrality" died with them. You just took sides whether you wanted to or not. The Thalmor will come for you and all those in your care. Will you side with their enemies or their enablers?

 

Let's start with the enablers, the Empire. They allowed the Thalmor to hunt the Blades freely. If the Thalmor call out your College as a "Rogue Organization" the Empire will hand them the Writ that makes it legal for them to take over the school. Once its new masters they'd kill anyone they thought was a threat and recruit anyone they thought had potential -- not just the existing students and staff but new incoming students as well. The Synod, smelling a precedent, might be wise enough to convince the Empire not to allow it, but the Synod hates or at least distrusts both the College and you its Archmage, so I would not invest any trust in their making the smart decision.

As Archmage I can't let this generation be slaughtered and future generations corrupted by the Thalmor. I must protect Winterhold (the territory) from the political jurisdiction that would very likely make this possible. By any means necessary I must keep the Empire out of Winterhold.

 

Now look at the potential advantages of a full-throated Stormcloak alliance. Yes, of course anti-magic prejudice is a bigger problem for you. But it's the sort of problem that presents opportunities as opposed to the kind that presents Thalmor facists storming your halls.

First anti-magic prejudice such as it is could be eroded by the College explicitly taking up Ulfric's cause. Ulfric himself would have to respect the Archmage and the College given his respect for the Dragonborn. The Cult of Personality that is Ulfric should do the rest -- College Mages stood with the Stormcloaks and Ulfric stands with the College. I'd put the Stormcloak badge right there on the College Mage uniform and expel anyone who refused to wear it -- after explaining how the previous Archmage and Master were both murdered by Thalmor agents.

"In for a penny in for a pound." The Thalmor are coming whether we embrace Nationalism in all its fury or hold ourselves above it. The only difference is who stands with us when the critical moment comes. We need allies, bottom line, and pledging ourselves to The Cause is how we get them.

 

Ulfric: "Let the Dragonborn stand by my side."

Dragonborn: "The College of Winterhold stands by you as well. Death to the Thalmor!"

 

So about that wearing badges and expelling anyone who won't ... we have to get out there and make ourselves visible. We have to put the Vigilant of Stendarr out of a job. Ulfric respects the Dragonborn, so if I asked him to put me in charge of Witchhunting -- and there are a lot of Witches out there need huntin' -- why wouldn't he give me the job? Now we can protect innocent mages from persecution, weed out the bad ones giving us a bad name, and most importantly I and my students can show The Colors to all of Skyrim, show our uniforms and badges, while we're out there cleaning up the Hagraven problem, hunting Vampires, and putting the Vigil out of a job in the name of Skyrim and its great national treasure The College of Winterhold. "I think I saw a vampire. We need someone from the College!" THAT is how we turn things around for our dying school.

 

And it is dying. Its policy of "Neutrality" while perhaps wise at some point in its distant past is now a liability. Neutrality isn't helping the College; by taking sides we get new recruits, new respect, and new allies when the Thalmor inevitably return. In a sense Onmund was right, he just had no clue how to get there. But then that's why I'm the Archmage ...

[wolfpack91]

stormcloaks are weak and pathatic you'd think and entire military camp could take down one fledgling werewolf but no. even when i attacked windhelm i took the whole city down and made it to the palace before general tulius even made it in the gate. now what kind of STRONG army cant stop a single wood elf

[LordSarcasm]

Stormcloaks are all racist hicks.

[Relativelybest]

Where you stand seems to be dependent on where you sit. From the Gray Quarter the Thalmor seem distant and abstract compared to the dismal reality of Stormcloak rule. If you're a mage anti-magic prejudice makes Empire seem a no-brainer ... until you become Archmage. That changes everything.

 

If you're the Archmage Ulfric is the only choice. Once those two Thalmor agents died any illusion of "Neutrality" died with them. You just took sides whether you wanted to or not.

 

Meh. Neutrality just means you don't get actively involved in other people's conflicts, not that you can't defend yourself or protect your interests, ever. It's certainly not "taking sides" when a diplomat comes to your school of witchcraft and wizardry as a guest, then decides to go rogue and hijack a very dangerous magical artifact, killing some of your faculty members in the process. Of course the Thalmor are going to deny the hell out of having anything to do with that mess.

 

Send their bodies back to them and go: "It's very tragic, but your man Ancano messed around with one of our experiments, that we specifically told him to stay away from, and he got himself blown up. Let's all consider this a somber lesson in magical safety. Oh, and we found the other guy in an old nord ruin. Seems a draugr got him. Really, we have no idea what he was doing down there."

[moxrox]

Patranka, on 11 Mar 2013 - 18:43, said:

Patranka, on 11 Mar 2013 - 18:43, said:

Patranka, on 11 Mar 2013 - 18:43, said:

Patranka, on 11 Mar 2013 - 18:43, said:

Patranka, on 11 Mar 2013 - 18:43, said:

Patranka, on 11 Mar 2013 - 18:43, said:

I was about to join stormcloaks (i was on empire side in my 1st play) but after reading this topic seems that ulfric is only looking after his ass

Who wont in the higher ranks, I dont see a difference here SC or Imperial. Ulfric did challenge the King Torygg and killed him and someone has to be in power.

 

Stormcloaks are the Nationalists who want souvereignity and are actually fighting against the White-Gold Concordate, which turns the empire into a puppet of the Thalmor with all their demandings. It was more or less a dictate by sword-point and nobody in Tamriel would have accepted it otherwise. The Stormcloaks believe that it was a betrayal on whole Skyrim. The religous part plays a huge role when it comes to Talos and the Thalmor Justiciars, punish everyone of them who still excercise it. And therefore the people of Skyrim are especially dissatisfied, due to the Talos outlaw...their religion.

 

Wheras the Imperial Legion see the Stormcloaks as traitors, due to their demand of souvereignity not beeing under the rules of Thalmor and the allegedly murdering of the High King Torygg. In the Markarth Incident, Ulfric did arrange with the Imperial Legion to allow free worship of Talos. The Empire rescinded upon the agreement due to pressure form the Aldmeri Dominion, which are the Thalmors. This betrayal left Ulfirc bitter towards the Empire and is considered to be the initial concept of the Stormcloak rebellion.

 

The Thalmor who believe to be supremacists try to disempower the empire with their in the meanwhile weak Imperial Legion. They want to hold and widen out their own power and aims and supress every protests under their supremacist elves rule.

 

The Thalmor are actually the representants of the Second Aldmeri Dominion, who actually believe into supremacy of races and actually this means they believe in supremacy in Mer over Men. Where Mer describes the elven races and Men the human ones.

 

I would not join too early any faction until you know a bit more about the background stories. Do the Quests "Diplomatic Immunity" read the journals and follow the background stories of the Thalmor and how they contribute, listen to the people in Skyrim and watch how the Imperials and Stormcloaks actually treat them, not just how they talk to or about them. I did read its better not to join any faction before mid level and a lot more background knowledge of the politics ingame. The race of your character will probably influence the decision and the feel of the factions aswell, any elf character will probably be insulted by both factions :P. At the end there are probably no really true "good ones" like in real life. I did not join any faction myself so far, need to find out a lot more first to make a decision.

 

 

 

 

Parts of the story are allegedly taken from the Irish War of Independence from 1916

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence

Edited March 13, 2013 by moxrox