Long War mod discussion

[johnnylump]

Thanks ... coding that one was challenging, and bokuak was a big help. An option I have is to lower the to hit of interceptor weapons even more, but raise the kill bonus (say, avalanches start at 30 percent to hit instead of 50, but the bonus is 3% per kill). Keep the feedback coming!

[Rikera]

Is this mod compatible with ToolBoks? Going by the information on the main page no as they both edit the same upks.

 

I just cant play the game without ToolBoks for the simple fact of unrealistic country/gender recruitment. The elite of the elite recruited to fight aliens would not be made up of 75% chinese females. Not being racist or anything, plain and simple probability would not deem it so.

[drake8888]

I was just looking over the post on the upk upgrades and did I read correctly that you can increase the number of aliens per encounter? If so, what version is that in 1.05 as well?

[johnnylump]

@Rikera -- Toolboks should work if you run it after you verify you've correctly installed the LW mod. LW replaces vanilla files; Toolboks edits the files you already have in place.

 

And I haven't changed those aspects of the random soldier generator from vanilla.

 

@ Drake -- Yes, the increased aliens in most encounters is part of 1.05.

[Rikera]

Thanks for reply Johnny, really looking forward to booting this up now. Exactly the mod i was looking for when i first googled "xcom mods".

[Rikera]

Sorry for double post.

 

Could you tell me roughly what you changed in terms of the AI etc? In your description it says that they are basically the same as vanilla. Booted the mod up but sick to death of the aim/crit RNG buff to AI 1 shoting across the map through multiple high cover's etc. Coupled with the teleport bug happening to me almost constantly there isn't much you can do but rage delete the save and start over.

 

improved chance of dice rolling is not an increase in dificulty of any sense in any game. Its cheap and alot of people shun it when developers use that sort of tricks to increase "dificulty" in other genre's or titles.

[johnnylump]

Actually, I disagree a bit with your premise. Each of the aliens have a "base" skill level, which determines their chance to hit. It varies from species to species. It's contained in the DefaultGameCore.ini file, if you're curious. Those numbers are set by developers and can be changed. Different difficulty levels change those numbers, so I'm hard-pressed to call that a "cheat" when the changes are also made by the developers. So Thin Men are better shooters between one difficulty to another -- is that cheating, or just making the game harder by making the Thin Men a bit more dangerous?

 

I'd define "Cheating" as setting certain aliens being able to ignore cover entirely, I guess, without the player being provided that information, but from what I've seen the cover bonus is universal. Some aliens are just better with guns.

 

But in point of fact, I removed the shooting bonus on most species in impossible, relative to vanilla. Instead they generally come at you with more numbers, but individuals aren't quite as deadly. (I also improved X-Com by giving them more item slots). You can compare the mod's DGC with the vanilla, if you like.

 

I have not changed the AI itself -- that is, the decision trees the aliens employ in determining what to do. I know that's nerfed on lower difficulty levels, but the aliens on classic and impossible are about as smart as the devs could make them.

 

The overall philosophy of this mod is that sometimes you can make good decisions, but the aliens will still win sometimes, through better decisions, superior numbers, technology, or just good shooting (which is the same as luck in this case). You should be willing to give ground and retreat from battles.

 

So the skill test comes not only in tactical play -- which, if you're good at, you will *tend* to win, but you won't always win -- but also in presenting you crises that you have to figure out the way out of while minimizing the damage. That's something I thought was largely missing from vanilla. This mod is working if the aliens are sometimes able to kill your colonels, shoot down your satellites, and knock countries out of the X-Com program. My own playthroughs, and feedback from others, suggest it's close to balanced in that regard. (And I personally enjoy the extra stress that creates, because it makes wins and losses more meaningful). It's not sheer capriciousness that beats you over the course of a game. I lose 40 or 50 guys over the course of a campaign with this mod, and losing the high-rankers really hurts, but that's part of the test, and thus fun, in my view.

 

I'm certainly willing to make adjustments if there are places where it's just too damn hard and can't be beaten by any means, but I wouldn't recommend this mod to people who go in with the attitude that there's some perfect play out there that will guarantee victory after victory.

[Rikera]

Hey johnny i apologize as i should of been clearer. My rant was simply about the increased aim/crit bonus in the higher difficulty levels. I know this can be removed and there is a mod out there that does so, i just wanted to check what you had changed. I completely agree with your post and your completely right.

 

Its just when developer's increase Difficulty by buffing certain RNG parimeters then it can be seen as a cheap easy method they have employed to get more millage out of you. They know this too, and yes by increasing the RNG the game becomes more difficult but in a negative way. Your supposed to outsmart and out maneuver the AI (especially early game) and for them to compensate against this by simply coding the AI to hit easier and crit better is cheating, themselves and the player. Its not hard for them (as people know from modding the game) to add a few numbers to aim/crit and bolt it on as essentially replay value. No one would call a human opponent who is using hacks in whatever game an opponent with "increased difficulty" no, they would call them a cheat.

 

I love the vanilla game even with its faults and i love what yourself and this community is doing. I just cant stand that they employed cheap RNG buffs to AI as part of the challenge. Higher numbers and more HP is fine but getting 1 shotted across the map from the back of a building, through a window, then a car window and straight over the tall van your stood behind isnt (imo).

[johnnylump]

No worries! Wanted to make sure you knew what you were in for before you committed a lot of time to playing the mod. And I generally agree the tactical game loses some fun when the aliens auto-hit you, time after time, regardless of your choices. If it happens occasionally, even several times in a row, it's acceptable, but if you feel you can't ever do anything at all about it, then it's capricious. And that's a big reason why I lowered a lot of alien accuracy ratings in favor of more aliens.

 

(Watch out for the Thin Men, though. They're the alien version of snipers.)

[Rikera]

Yeah been playing it alot more tonight and its very refreshing. Playing my first main game mission (you know the one where u actually select squad members) i noticed the differences immediately, the locations or pockets of aliens wasn't so easy to predict because of their numbers and i can clearly tell that the accuracy of the sectoids seems to be toned down just right.

 

Also loving the interceptor sequence overhaul, i was expecting the usual 2 shot face roll from the first ufo encounter but i had to abort the first one, and it escaped the second. Shortened timer is also very nice as it causes you to actually worry about the whole engagement rather than seeing the class size and thinking win/lose.

 

Nice work, sorry about the rant earlier too. Again it was nothing against your mod...which is fantastic btw. ;)